USMC Force Recon conducts VBSS training

[Brill]

What the fuck is up with this shitty font?

I learned all about SOF from here.

I would argue that the reason for expanding the Ranger force structure is they were deploying their asses off with two wars and other stuff. Is the Ranger tab or service in the 75th required BEFORE SFAS or A&S? (No)
One could argue that High School and College are more of SF feeder organizations than the Ranger BNs. Not a dig tigerstr, I am just suspect of anyone who uses "Delta force" in a serious manner. Here's that link with his 2008 paper (Page 16 is a MUST READ for USASOC members):

http://www.csbaonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2008.11.17-Special-Operation-Forces.pdf

About the Author
Robert Martinage, Senior Fellow, is an expert on defense strategy, military modernization, special operations, military revolutions, and advanced technology and future warfare. He has over fourteen years of experience designing, conducting, and analyzing wargames for the Department of Defense (DoD). He has written several research papers that have been circulated widely among senior DoD officials. He
recently authored The Global War on Terrorism: An Assessment, which was highlighted by the Council on Foreign Relations as a “must-read,” and co-authored Dissuasion Strategy (with Andrew Krepinevich). He has served as a consultant to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) for seven years.

 

[dknob]

I read the transcripts to that house hearing as well.. the person who said what you quotes is a civilian.. General Downing said this in his reply:
"

The Delta force is probably 70 percent Rangers who have ​

come out of either a Ranger special forces track or directly ​

from a Ranger regiment to Delta.​

he was correcting him in a nicely manner

 

[goon175]

Many Rangers went SF in the early years of Ranger Bn, as back then you could not stay in the Ranger Bn. They had a very strict interpretation of Abrams Charter back then, so you had to leave Batt. after a few years to go "make the rest of the Army better". So, Rangers not wanting to go back to the conventional force, went SF instead.

Fast forward 20+ years, and it is routine for Rangers to spend there entire careers (or up to the 1sg/CSM level) in the Ranger Regiment.

Below is how I would rank where Rangers go in the modern day Regiment, from most to least. THIS IS NOT FACT, BUT MY OWN OBSERVATION.

1. ETS (Contracting/College/Work)
2. Stay in Regiment
3. Go to a higher tiered unit at Ft. Bragg/Ft. Meade
4. Big Army (instructor slots, AMU, RTB, LRS units)
5. OCS or WOFT
6. SF

I have known 5 Rangers to go to SFAS, 3 of them actually went to SF: 2 of them did it to use as leverage for promotion (i.e. give me a team or I'm going to the Q)(they declined the Q after they got what they wanted from their CoC); 1 of them was RFS'd and did not want to go to the big army so went to SFAS instead; 1 of them was not selected after going to selections for 2 different higher tiered units, but wanted to leave Regiment so went SF; the last one had a dad who was a sgm in group and wanted to serve in the same unit as his dad.

Most Rangers are Rangers because they like going explosive and shooting bad guys in the face. Most Rangers HATE working with the IPU/APU/ANA etc. and thus do not want to go SF where they know they will only have to do more of that.

There isn't really a rivalry (friendly or not), the two units are apples and oranges, two professional units who have jobs to do.

 

[AWP]

As I stated before I am just an outsider looking in, but I am trying to have my ducks in a row, when commenting in this forum, obviously just with open source available information, and no personal experience.
Again, I ment no disrespect for the Rangers, I was trying to make a point.

As an Admin, I would ask that you refrain from posting so far outside of your lane. Were you an American with some tangential experience your comments, however misguided, would be tolerated...a little. As a foreigner with zero experience in the American military you should refrain from "I read in a book" or "I saw on the internet" as the sole basis for your observations and/ or comments. Had this thread for example been about the Royal Marine Commandos and the SBS I would tell you the exact same thing.

 

[tigerstr]

Will do Freefalling. There is a wealth of information in this Forum, coming from BTDT, and I understand my position as an outsider .

 

[goon175]

This kind of piqued my curiosity, so I pulled out one of my deployment manifests from 2007 and did a little "where are they now" analysis. Below is the breakdown of what I found:

Numbers were rounded to the nearest whole number

40% have ETS'd
36% are still serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment
7% are serving in an SMU
4% are serving in the big army (most of this category are officers who have to return for a conventional command tour)
3% have gone to OCS/Green2Gold/WOFT
1% have gone to Special Forces
8% were RFS'd
2% have been KIA (RIP)

 

[dknob]

I once wrote this

If you took 100 Rangers…

• 4-5 Would end up in CAG
• 2 Would end up in SF
• 2 Would end up in RRC
• 2 would be KIA
• 5-7 would be discharged for wounds or injuries
• 3 would be RFSd
• 15-20 would make the 75th a home for 15-20 years
• ~ 65 would leave the military all together

we arent too far off

 

[Red Ryder]

Good info for aspiring Army and Marine SOF on this thread. Thanks!

 

[Poccington]

That makes sense. Marine Recon has a rich history.
Growing up, Force Recon was probably the only SOF unit I've ever heard about. And reading up on them I always thought that deep reconnaissance meant either doing Close Target Recces or straight up setting up a hide site in the backyard of Mullah Omar's mansion in November of 2001 (all examples). Now, being in the community and seeing how things REALLY work - I've realized that cool-guy recce operations are solely reserved for the highest echelons.

Why is it that CTR's and OP's are left to those at the top?

 

[dknob]

CTR is one of the most dangerous duties one can perform in a war zone in my opinion. It's not like a reconnaissance mission where one is hiding from a "safe"-ish distance with some binos and cameras. CTR is performed in the closest proximity to a target as possible. It's not something you undertake with a squad or even a team. If you read Kill Bin Laden - Dalton tells of a mission in Afghanistan where a single shooter dresses up as hajj, gets on a public transit bus and makes the hours long trip to a house within feet of the home of a HVT to gain intel on their upcoming raid later that night. By himself, a QRF that is a long way out - what if he was compromised?

Could a mission like this really be undertaken by anybody else aside from those at the top?

 

[Poccington]

CTR is one of the most dangerous duties one can perform in a war zone in my opinion. It's not like a reconnaissance mission where one is hiding from a "safe"-ish distance with some binos and cameras. CTR is performed in the closest proximity to a target as possible. It's not something you undertake with a squad or even a team. If you read Kill Bin Laden - Dalton tells of a mission in Afghanistan where a single shooter dresses up as hajj, gets on a public transit bus and makes the hours long trip to a house within feet of the home of a HVT to gain intel on their upcoming raid later that night. By himself, a QRF that is a long way out - what if he was compromised?

Could a mission like this really be undertaken by anybody else aside from those at the top?

I know it's nothing like an OP but don't your Recce lads practice for CTR's? Especially since it's a Recce tasking after all?

Over here our Recce Platoons carry out CTR's, although the situation you've described above would be something that goes far beyond the skillset of normal Recce Platoons. Not all CTR's are like that though, so I don't see why the Units with Recce taskings outside of the top tier shouldn't be trusted with carrying out CTR's. Even in the above case, if CTR's are having to be adapted like the above, surely Units with Recce taskings training should reflect it?

Obviously I'm an outsider looking in, it's just interesting to see how other countries do the Recce job compared to us over here.

 

[dknob]

I know it's nothing like an OP but don't your Recce lads practice for CTR's? Especially since it's a Recce tasking after all?

Over here our Recce Platoons carry out CTR's, although the situation you've described above would be something that goes far beyond the skillset of normal Recce Platoons. Not all CTR's are like that though, so I don't see why the Units with Recce taskings outside of the top tier shouldn't be trusted with carrying out CTR's. Even in the above case, if CTR's are having to be adapted like the above, surely Units with Recce taskings training should reflect it?

Obviously I'm an outsider looking in, it's just interesting to see how other countries do the Recce job compared to us over here.

Our Recce Platoons in the battalion level do special reconnaissance and CTR type missions. But by CTR-Type I mean they drive by target buildings and take pictures as they pass hours before a raid. And in larger elements then just 1-2 people.

RRC/RRD's reconnaissance is very very intel/technical oriented. Wont get into it too much. Idk the extent of their CTR capabilities and experience.

 

[Poccington]

Our Recce Platoons in the battalion level do special reconnaissance and CTR type missions. But by CTR-Type I mean they drive by target buildings and take pictures as they pass hours before a raid. And in larger elements then just 1-2 people.

Ah I see, that's where I was getting a bit confused. Over here when we're doing CTR's it's on foot, usually within at least 40 metres of the target area, even at Bn level.

Thanks for clearing that up mate.

 

[goon175]

All I know is they wear black ninja suits and are issued throwing stars at CIF.

 

[dknob]

What the fuck is up with this shitty font?

I learned all about SOF from here.

I would argue that the reason for expanding the Ranger force structure is they were deploying their asses off with two wars and other stuff. Is the Ranger tab or service in the 75th required BEFORE SFAS or A&S? (No)
One could argue that High School and College are more of SF feeder organizations than the Ranger BNs. Not a dig tigerstr, I am just suspect of anyone who uses "Delta force" in a serious manner. Here's that link with his 2008 paper (Page 16 is a MUST READ for USASOC members):

http://www.csbaonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2008.11.17-Special-Operation-Forces.pdf



Reading the pdf now, but this was under SF Command section: "Traditionally, SF have
drawn their manpower from experienced soldiers (often Rangers) and trained these..."

That's obviously not true as already stated in here, or at least it hasnt applied since 9/11.

 

[AWP]

I think we've reached the end of this recce discussion.