Warrant Officers for the USAF

[Red-Dot]

Just wanted to get all of the AF types opinion on this. I think (not that my opinion matters) that the AF would benefit greatly by "re-introducing" the warrant officer corps. This would greatly increase the technical expertise in areas especially CCT, PJ and TACP. This might piss off some CRO's, STO's and ALO's but would benefit the the individual AFSC's. This would also in my opinion alleviate some of the bottle necking that goes on in the E-7 through E-9 ranks......What say you?

 

[DA SWO]

Just wanted to get all of the AF types opinion on this. I think (not that my opinion matters) that the AF would benefit greatly by "re-introducing" the warrant officer corps. This would greatly increase the technical expertise in areas especially CCT, PJ and TACP. This might piss off some CRO's, STO's and ALO's but would benefit the the individual AFSC's. This would also in my opinion alleviate some of the bottle necking that goes on in the E-7 through E-9 ranks......What say you?

That, or establish a LDO program like the Navy has.
Guys with an associate come back as 2Lt's knowing they will probably be capped at O-3.
Finish the degree and the door to O-4 opens a wee bit.
Make it a 50-50 split with half your Lt's coming from the enlisted ranks and half through the pipeline.
C-ALO (or what ever it is now called) could do the same thing.

 

[0699]

IF warrant officers are used as they were originally designed, I think they're a great idea. They provide that continuity in knowledge/experience that a young officer doesn't bring to the table (bosun, sailing master, Marine Gunner, 180A(I don't know; it's just what I've heard)). Unfortunately in the Corps, you can apply to be a warrant officer (except for Gunners) as a sergeant with 8 years TIS; I don't know how much experience they bring to the table. IMO, the Marine Gunner concept is how all of the Warrant Officers in the Corps should be run.

 

[Johca]

You do realize the primary brnches in the US Army utilizing Warrant Officers in a tactical capacity is the Army's aviation branch and the Army's Special Forces Branch. The Special Forces warrant officer 018 MOS was established from primary reasoning the Warrant Office is not forced to move to a new duty asignment forced by promotion as is caused by officer and NCO promotion up the ranks. It was also to be the reward for the best, strongest and brightest Special Forces NCOs to give stability experience to the Special Forces programs that young officers lacked or new to Special Forces operations officers lacked. How well this is working for Army Special Forces will need to be addressed by the Army Special Forces members.

It should be noted the Special Forces unigue and seperate 18 series MOS for both officers and enlisted were established October 1, 1984. Prior to this Special Forces consisted of feeder MOSs, meaning additional skill identifier of ‘S’-Special Forces qualified was added to the individual MOS after required training and qualification happened. The Special Forces Warrant Officer 018MOS was established a year or two later.

The Army Warrant Officer Corps was established on July 9, 1918. It transformed and grew larger during and immediately after WWII as resullt initially from the war effort and subsequently as the placement MOS areas to place rifted officers wanting to remain in the Army. There are no infanty warrant officers and lack of combat arms warrant officer MOSs other than the aviation branch pilot MOSs and Special Forces warrant Officer MOS does demonstrate the Air Force using Warrant officer rank as a specialized combatant AFSC would be a significant paradigm shift.

 

[Johca]

FYI, The Pararescue MOS/AFSC when it weas established backin 1947 had a career progession career path to the warrant officer ranks. This option was eliminated when the Air Force elininated Warrant Officer rank and grades from its force structure.

The LDO options were studied and researched thoroughly by the SNCOs of the USAF Pararescue speciality during 1987, 1988, 1989 and it was determined the not being a full fledged officer with career development and promotion options up the command appointment feeding chain to Group Commander, Wing Commander and higher was not a practical, effective, or efficient solution.

TACP and SOW are in a considerable different providing support to the Army mission role than Pararescue is. Besides with rumors of ALO removing female combat exclusion restictions the warrant officer TACP AFSC would be in the same boat.

 

[DA SWO]

FYI, The Pararescue MOS/AFSC when it weas established backin 1947 had a career progession career path to the warrant officer ranks. This option was eliminated when the Air Force elininated Warrant Officer rank and grades from its force structure.

The LDO options were studied and researched thoroughly by the SNCOs of the USAF Pararescue speciality during 1987, 1988, 1989 and it was determined the not being a full fledged officer with career development and promotion options up the command appointment feeding chain to Group Commander, Wing Commander and higher was not a practical, effective, or efficient solution.

TACP and SOW are in a considerable different providing support to the Army mission role than Pararescue is. Besides with rumors of ALO removing female combat exclusion restictions the warrant officer TACP AFSC would be in the same boat.

LDO is designed to get mid-senior enlisted personnel into the commissioned ranks. Those desiring to be Squadron Commanders need only complete their degree, and apply for a conversion to a Regular Line Officer Commission, that's how the Navy was doing it when I worked for them.

 

[Johca]

I'm aware of the Navy's LDO program. How many of those LDO helicopter pilots and other LDOs got appointed to command a tactical capability of the line (Submarine, Aircraft Carrier, destroyer, and missile frigate)? It's the command influence to make the key changes and decisions concerning tactics, concepts of operations, force selection of which unit does what in what deployment and employment priority order. A squadron commander with no influence is nothing but a position filler that can be the convenient scapegoat to fire or blame when things going wrong in a unit and the wrong gets under too much scrutiny.


If you actually read between the lines of the LDO program proposals and positions being filled by LDOs, it was actually to get officers in the undermanned less desirable “officer” positions. Those desiring to join the Navy to be Navy aviators wanted to be “Top Gun” carrier fighter pilots and not helicopter pilots. Plenty of LDO Navy helicopter pilots at one time due to the helicopter pilot shortage.


I’ve not ever seen or heard of a LDO fighter pilot or any other such LDO in a bridge officer duty position of a Navy combat fire power ship of the line (carrier, destroyer, missile frigate, submarine).

 

[DA SWO]

I'm aware of the Navy's LDO program. How many of those LDO helicopter pilots and other LDOs got appointed to command a tactical capability of the line (Submarine, Aircraft Carrier, destroyer, and missile frigate)? It's the command influence to make the key changes and decisions concerning tactics, concepts of operations, force selection of which unit does what in what deployment and employment priority order. A squadron commander with no influence is nothing but a position filler that can be the convenient scapegoat to fire or blame when things going wrong in a unit and the wrong gets under too much scrutiny.


If you actually read between the lines of the LDO program proposals and positions being filled by LDOs, it was actually to get officers in the undermanned less desirable “officer” positions. Those desiring to join the Navy to be Navy aviators wanted to be “Top Gun” carrier fighter pilots and not helicopter pilots. Plenty of LDO Navy helicopter pilots at one time due to the helicopter pilot shortage.


I’ve not ever seen or heard of a LDO fighter pilot or any other such LDO in a bridge officer duty position of a Navy combat fire power ship of the line (carrier, destroyer, missile frigate, submarine).

That is because the Navy uses LDO for their technical positions, same as the Army.
How many CWO Squadron/Bn Commanders are there?

 

[Johca]

Here you go, a warrant officer comic strip apparence just drawn at a convenient to this discussion moment.

http://www.deltabravosierra.us/?p=4769