Weekend Safety Brief

[Teufel]

I learned back in OIF1 that garrison needs to stay back in garrison and what happens in areas that is under CENTCOM is a forgivable "sin". I also learned firsthand that people who stayed in TRADOC their entire lives and needing blocks for ratings checked and heading downrange to get them, got people killed. Giving ass chewings for not wearing seatbelts* that got my friend burnt really bad because he could not egress fast enough because an E-9 was so far from the line that all he knew was regs and not the reality of the situation there, made me learn that there's a time and place for everything to disregard for practical reasons or to maintain for professionalism, but hiding in TRADOC and far away from FORSCOM to remember what it was like to be an actual soldier ain't one of them. I don't know how the USMC works or how many commands it has for different purposes but something tells me that this Gunny from your service was one of those types.

*This was before the quick release ones, we still had basic cold war era equipment in our unarmored vehicles.

Something about me:

I still have the scars from the mortar strike on my face and neck from a tasking to pick up cases of water and dropping them off at the local national workers holding area in Balad, 04. The 923's door and my IBA stopped the fragments. The blast sending the mirror into my face and glass shards all over imbedded into my skin, was an entirely different story ...that was fun. Especially the bitch slap it gave to me which is what my doc is calling a TBI after several MRI's to confirm.

Three fun facts immediately after that happened:

1. I was the driver and had to keep swatting my TC from trying to apply pressure around my neck. What a dumb girl but she had heart*.

*She was the only female that was very pregnant before we got orders and was mad because she was pregnant and couldn't go with. She persisted after giving birth and begged and pleaded to deploy to us. She got her wish. Dumber than a box of rocks girl but she wasn't a coward like the others who did get pregnant so they couldn't do what they enlisted to do, so I will give her that.

2. Even with obvious blast marks and body damage upon getting back to our camp near USAF village, one of our NCO's barked at me to make sure we parked just like in Germany and told me to knock off that dumb look at my face. That wasn't from being dumb, that was shock at how obtuse this guy was being*. I was also full on spiteful mad because of that. Out of principle after driving back to our area, I made it a point to combat park in a straight line and place textbook perfect motorpool drip pan and chock block to show how stupid this was to tell a soldier with obvious wounds. I even buckled up the seatbelt to be pretty for them because I was once told that it's basic soldiering. Nothing could be done for the body damage and my blood though, LMAO. Not sorry.

*This guy was a definite soup sandwich and somehow got awarded a CAB despite not seeing any combat action with us. CAB wasn't even a thing back then either. This same ricki retard dear leader after our convoy from BIAP to Balad, told his troop who asked for his mag at the clearing barrel like we all were supposed to do on the instructions next to it, FFS, that he got this. Racks his chambered round out, with mag still in the A2, puts it on fire in the barrel, drops mag, and then fires and got surprised that it happened.

3. I walked up to the TOC and inside lit a smoke cause I was out of Fvcks at this point and told Top what an asshat his operations NCO was, and I'll take this one to court martial if he got wind of me calling him a sack of crap for what he made me do despite being messed up from a mortar round, and if he wanted to article 15 me then I will fight it all the way, grabbed a bottle of water to get some blood out of my eyes, gave myself a black eye doing so walking into the tentpole because my glasses was off trying to clean them and whammo, and then said screw it I am going to the CASH that just arrived because no one knows what to do with me. Everyone inside the TOC was still in a state of shock and could not comprehend what had just happened. I heard that all my leadership went chasing after me in the dark to make sure I was okay, but couldn't find me until after I was inside that CASH of reservists. I had 6 girls on me that I could not tell at the time if they were actual solid 8's or deployment 10's.

Anyway...

In 2006 to OEF, we were so short on bodies that both E-5's and E-6's were added to the duty roster for Bagram details. I was sent to be a gate guard at the OGA camp. Not Camp Vance which was much further down on Disney. I knew what was going on and who you guys were. I had to stop a few nosey officers who got butthurt because as I told them, no badges, no entry. I then asked if they wanted me to call the SOG so they could hash it out with him. They left butthurt. Some of the guys that walked out of camp looked like crap but that wasn't my job there and was none of my concern because so long as they had badges, they were good to me. I ain't never been treated so kindly ever by any place that we was assigned or attached to. I could not tell whom was from what service not even my own but man we were taken care of by random folk asking if we needed water, bathroom breaks, food, coffee from Green Beans, etc.

But I had a gut feeling that the guys in the back of the jingle truck in multicams one day that I asked to show me their badges when we were all ACU at the time, was definitely US Army and most likely Delta.

But I get what you are saying but honestly cannot fault a kid from a unit with a high operational tempo, but there's some real numpties who should never have been promoted are out there that should be avoided. I heard you all went to OCP over your service's MARPAT. Now they'll never know who you belong, haha.

Haircuts, uniform regulations, and close order drill are tools to teach discipline. The utility of these lessons, however, are just as applicable on the battlefield as they are on the parade deck. Discipline is more important in combat than in garrison because figuratively speaking there are no safeties, there are no safety nets, and there is limited supervision. Rules are rules. We use rules that we can see or inspect like appropriate wearing of the uniform, appearance standards, and weapons cleanliness, to determine how likely other rules like rules of engagement and the law of armed conflict are being followed. We aren't supposed to pick and choose what rules to follow. This is why it's important not to establish ridiculous rules like wearing reflective belts everywhere (looking at you Army) and banning dump pouches and war belts at the chow hall in a war zone. Additionally it has been my experience that a disciplined unit also has good fire discipline and weapons control. Victory often comes down to doing the right things at the appropriate time and this is as much a function of discipline as it is training.

Some people who don't leave the wire have a hard time transitioning from the garrison mentality they are comfortable in, to a combat mindset. The commanding officer at Camp Ramadi in 2005 would close the chow hall if there was a major combat operation going on, and would not allow anyone from inside the camp to line up before the gunfighters who returned from combat. They had to wash their hands and drop their flaks, (and clear weapons obviously) but could keep their war belts on and anything else that didn't come off easily. They would then do an AAR and clean weapons together. That's the right way to do business in my opinion.

I get that a lot of the people here are from the SOF community and the rules in SOF seem to be a little different. You can get away with a lot when you have a more mature group of people who have special assessment and training requirements. It's different with line units. This was especially true in the midst of the GWOT when the Army and Marine Corps dropped entry standards to meet manning requirements. I had two Marines in my first platoon who offered a choice between enlistment or prison. Now take a very diverse group of people with varying levels of education, maturity, and frankly morals, and put them into harsh living conditions with unimaginable stress and very little sleep. Discipline and leadership must be the lode stars that guide your team through the physical and moral challenges of battle.

 

[Teufel]

Haircuts, uniform regulations, and close order drill are tools to teach discipline. The utility of these lessons, however, are just as applicable on the battlefield as they are on the parade deck. Discipline is more important in combat than in garrison because figuratively speaking there are no safeties, there are no safety nets, and there is limited supervision. Rules are rules. We use rules that we can see or inspect like appropriate wearing of the uniform, appearance standards, and weapons cleanliness, to determine how likely other rules like rules of engagement and the law of armed conflict are being followed. We aren't supposed to pick and choose what rules to follow. This is why it's important not to establish ridiculous rules like wearing reflective belts everywhere (looking at you Army) and banning dump pouches and war belts at the chow hall in a war zone. Additionally it has been my experience that a disciplined unit also has good fire discipline and weapons control. Victory often comes down to doing the right things at the appropriate time and this is as much a function of discipline as it is training.

Some people who don't leave the wire have a hard time transitioning from the garrison mentality they are comfortable in, to a combat mindset. The commanding officer at Camp Ramadi in 2005 would close the chow hall if there was a major combat operation going on, and would not allow anyone from inside the camp to line up before the gunfighters who returned from combat. They had to wash their hands and drop their flaks, (and clear weapons obviously) but could keep their war belts on and anything else that didn't come off easily. They would then do an AAR and clean weapons together. That's the right way to do business in my opinion.

I get that a lot of the people here are from the SOF community and the rules in SOF seem to be a little different. You can get away with a lot when you have a more mature group of people who have special assessment and training requirements. It's different with line units. This was especially true in the midst of the GWOT when the Army and Marine Corps dropped entry standards to meet manning requirements. I had two Marines in my first platoon who offered a choice between enlistment or prison. Now take a very diverse group of people with varying levels of education, maturity, and frankly morals, and put them into harsh living conditions with unimaginable stress and very little sleep. Discipline and leadership must be the lode stars that guide your team through the physical and moral challenges of battle.

Maybe I’m just old! I joined this site sixteen years ago as a young and inquisitive Recon Marine looking for answers. I’ve learned a lot since then but am still trying to advance my professional development.

 

[The Quartermaster]

Maybe I’m just old! I joined this site sixteen years ago as a young and inquisitive Recon Marine looking for answers. I’ve learned a lot since then but am still trying to advance my professional development.

When it came to that, I was reminded from past experiences and examples of previous leadership to remember where I came. I took it to where I went to before calling uncle and put in the papers for retirement after 21 years in.

Two decades of fixing camo nets the same tedious time consuming way, then one day immediately after recovering equipment from a field problem a brand new E-2 points out how it could be done better. My mind was blown at how up to all of this time we had been doing it wrong. I blame institutionalized inbreeding.

It's what I admired about the special forces side of things, you folks seem to never allow and not be suffering from fools. If one of your own doesn't pass the sniff test, you send him back to the line units. Us at the receiving end of these line units are stuck with what we already have and don't have that kind of pull to send a problem child back from whence they came from unless it was chaptering out a worthless POS and even then we still had to babysit until their final out :/

 

[Devildoc]

When it came to that, I was reminded from past experiences and examples of previous leadership to remember where I came. I took it to where I went to before calling uncle and put in the papers for retirement after 21 years in.

Two decades of fixing camo nets the same tedious time consuming way, then one day immediately after recovering equipment from a field problem a brand new E-2 points out how it could be done better. My mind was blown at how up to all of this time we had been doing it wrong. I blame institutionalized inbreeding.

It's what I admired about the special forces side of things, you folks seem to never allow and not be suffering from fools. If one of your own doesn't pass the sniff test, you send him back to the line units. Us at the receiving end of these line units are stuck with what we already have and don't have that kind of pull to send a problem child back from whence they came from unless it was chaptering out a worthless POS and even then we still had to babysit until their final out :/

I somewhat agree. The hide-bound bureaucracy that moves at glacial pace that is steeped in tradition is very reluctant to change. They say all the right buzz words about innovation and thinking outside the box the irony being as soon as it's done somebody is going to hammer you for it. Institutional inbreeding is a thing. And this goes for many non-military organizations, too.

These last 3 1/2 years of having a toe in the SF world and a peek behind the curtain, they have their share of fools. Every organization has its own bell curve. I've been told the story of one guy who bounced around to several ODAs because he's a problem child. It's everywhere, but I would admit probably a lot fewer in the SOF world.

 

[Devildoc]

Maybe I’m just old! I joined this site sixteen years ago as a young and inquisitive Recon Marine looking for answers. I’ve learned a lot since then but am still trying to advance my professional development.

I think the day you stop trying to advance professional development is the day you need to find a different job. I believed that at 22, and I believe it now at almost 56.

RE: your post, I couldn't agree more about discipline, and I admit I am double-minded about this so I will offer a "however" to your comments about hair and uniform standards.

Looking back at photos of Marines and soldiers in conflicts going back to the Banana Wars you see a variety, a mishmash, of uniforms and grooming standards but I don't know that any of them were any less disciplined than their colleagues who were 100% "by the book." And I don't know where to draw the line. I think you did a great job speaking about eliminating stupid rules (here's looking at you, hands in the pockets). There is indeed a line, a scale, where common sense should prevail and ridiculousness should be hammered.

I will also fully admit that as a corpsman I enjoyed a high level of ambiguity where the navy didn't care as long as I did my job (well, the Marines too), but a lot of men in the Marines neither understood navy regulations nor sailors with Marine standards. But you can bet that in garrison I was 100% "by the book". As an officer? I look like I stepped right out of the uniform catalog.

 

[Teufel]

I think the day you stop trying to advance professional development is the day you need to find a different job. I believed that at 22, and I believe it now at almost 56.

RE: your post, I couldn't agree more about discipline, and I admit I am double-minded about this so I will offer a "however" to your comments about hair and uniform standards.

Looking back at photos of Marines and soldiers in conflicts going back to the Banana Wars you see a variety, a mishmash, of uniforms and grooming standards but I don't know that any of them were any less disciplined than their colleagues who were 100% "by the book." And I don't know where to draw the line. I think you did a great job speaking about eliminating stupid rules (here's looking at you, hands in the pockets). There is indeed a line, a scale, where common sense should prevail and ridiculousness should be hammered.

I will also fully admit that as a corpsman I enjoyed a high level of ambiguity where the navy didn't care as long as I did my job (well, the Marines too), but a lot of men in the Marines neither understood navy regulations nor sailors with Marine standards. But you can bet that in garrison I was 100% "by the book". As an officer? I look like I stepped right out of the uniform catalog.

Haircuts and uniforms matter only because we say they matter. I put my company on relaxed grooming standards when we deployed because we had limited hygiene facilities (i.e. bucket showers) and I didn't want Marines getting sick or infections. We sometimes forget that these are just tools and not commandments.