What Percentage of GWOT Veterans Served in "Combat?"

[Florida173]

If I were a betting man, I'd say the number of erroneously awarded CIB's is far higher than those who deserve but didn't receive the CIB.

Erroneously? What's the approval authority? An O5?

There are tons of people with CIBs that I would consider to have not earned it based on regs. I'd agree that there are far fewer that have not received it from the blanket awards

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

If I were a betting man, I'd say the number of erroneously awarded CIB's is far higher than those who deserve but didn't receive the CIB.

Friend of mine didn't get his CIB or service award because of a bullshit article 15.


Dude was on Haifa Street in 04 when 1/9 Cav lost a Bradley and had to call in CAS on it (the "innocent" crowd).

Haifa Street helicopter incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still got pictures of it...

Besides the few gunfights I was personally witnessed him, that day was pretty damn sporty for a little while.

 

[Devildoc]

I have no clue how the Navy would track it. There are squids attached to commands that do/did find themselves in a kinetic action, but aside from official post-mortems/AARs, there's no bling to show for it. The Marines award the Combat Action Ribbon, but when I was in, that was more than just slinging lead toward the sound of gunfire to rate it.

Good luck. I think this would a very difficult project.

 

[Gunz]

I have no clue how the Navy would track it. There are squids attached to commands that do/did find themselves in a kinetic action, but aside from official post-mortems/AARs, there's no bling to show for it. The Marines award the Combat Action Ribbon, but when I was in, that was more than just slinging lead toward the sound of gunfire to rate it.

Good luck. I think this would a very difficult project.

Rog that, IIRC, the CAR is contingent upon satisfactory performance in combat. You can't stick your face in the sand while your getting shot at and rate it.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Regarding the Corps. Just because I was curious...

(C) BEING AWARDED THE PURPLE HEART DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A SERVICE MEMBER ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR, NOR DOES MERELY SERVING IN A COMBAT AREA OR BEING EXPOSED TO ENEMY FIRE OR THREAT OF ENEMY FIRE.

REVISED ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR AWARD OF THE COMBAT ACTION RIBBON (CAR) AND UPDATED COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS > The Official United States Marine Corps Public Website > Messages Display

 

[Devildoc]

Regarding the Corps. Just because I was curious...

(C) BEING AWARDED THE PURPLE HEART DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A SERVICE MEMBER ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR, NOR DOES MERELY SERVING IN A COMBAT AREA OR BEING EXPOSED TO ENEMY FIRE OR THREAT OF ENEMY FIRE.

REVISED ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR AWARD OF THE COMBAT ACTION RIBBON (CAR) AND UPDATED COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS > The Official United States Marine Corps Public Website > Messages Display

Truth. They hold the CAR in very high regard.

As an aside the Corps generally isn't "medal happy." Neither is the Navy. My father retired from the Marines, most of his time in intel. During one of his tours in Vietnam his outpost was attacked. He assumed command of a mortar pit when it's leadership was killed, directing it in defense. The VC/NVA was so close he was also using a pistol. He was put in for a Bronze Star, which was downgraded to a Navy & Marine Comm with a "V". I showed the citation to a friend, retired O5 in the Army, who said in the Army that could have been a Silver Star. I am not defending anything or complaining on my father's behalf, just observing the Marines are stingy with awards. In fact, my dad shrugged off the whole thing, saying he simply did his job as a Marine. He did have a CAR, though.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I just like that they use the word, "merely" . That made me laugh out loud.

 

[Beagle]

I know 1 infantry guy that did only office work/ never left the FOB/ never pull guard duty and he got a CIB.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I know 1 infantry guy that did only office work/ never left the FOB/ never pull guard duty and he got a CIB.

I know a few of those...

 

[Gunz]

Truth. They hold the CAR in very high regard.

As an aside the Corps generally isn't "medal happy." Neither is the Navy. My father retired from the Marines, most of his time in intel. During one of his tours in Vietnam his outpost was attacked. He assumed command of a mortar pit when it's leadership was killed, directing it in defense. The VC/NVA was so close he was also using a pistol. He was put in for a Bronze Star, which was downgraded to a Navy & Marine Comm with a "V". I showed the citation to a friend, retired O5 in the Army, who said in the Army that could have been a Silver Star. I am not defending anything or complaining on my father's behalf, just observing the Marines are stingy with awards. In fact, my dad shrugged off the whole thing, saying he simply did his job as a Marine. He did have a CAR, though.

Ain't that the truth. And more stingy with enlisted and NCOs than officers.

 

[Florida173]

Pardon my ignorance. Does the CAR equal CIB?

I've heard from some of our former Marines that once they transition over they can just wear the CIB. I'd think that it would still require orders, but never really cared much to track it down.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Ain't that the truth. And more stingy with enlisted and NCOs than officers.

The Army is completely jacked up on awards for lower enlisted/ JrNCO's. They freaking automatic BSM's for E7 and up just for living through a tour, than down grade Silver Star shit to ARCOM's with V all day. I've never understood that shit.

Pardon my ignorance. Does the CAR equal CIB?

I've heard from some of our former Marines that once they transition over they can just wear the CIB. I'd think that it would still require orders, but never really cared much to track it down.

Nope, you have to have permanent orders awarding the CIB to wear it. USMC CAR is authorized as the ribbon for wear on ASU, but no they can't just slap on a CIB. We had a former Marine do that shit who had a CAR, 1SG ripped him pretty good and made him take it off.

 

[Teufel]

Rog that, IIRC, the CAR is contingent upon satisfactory performance in combat. You can't stick your face in the sand while your getting shot at and rate it.

The original criteria was to take fire and return fire. Now it's take fire and perform appropriate action.

 

[Etype]

The Army is completely jacked up on awards for lower enlisted/ JrNCO's. They freaking automatic BSM's for E7 and up just for living through a tour, than down grade Silver Star shit to ARCOM's with V all day. I've never understood that shit.

The narratives for SS, BSMV, and ARCOMVs usually look pretty similar.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

The narratives for SS, BSMV, and ARCOMVs usually look pretty similar.

Would you disagree that it has more to do with rank than what actually took place? Not talking about your SF experience but on the conventional side.

 

[Etype]

Would you disagree that it has more to do with rank than what actually took place? Not talking about your SF experience but on the conventional side.

I think it could definitely a factor.

 

[Florida173]

Would you disagree that it has more to do with rank than what actually took place? Not talking about your SF experience but on the conventional side.

On one of my last deployments I saw a BN systematically reduce awards from arcom to aam for people that were spc and below. They had their quotas to keep.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

On one of my last deployments I saw a BN systematically reduce awards from arcom to aam for people that were spc and below. They had their quotas to keep.

Edit: Nevermind, no need to air dirty laundry.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

The Army AWARD system has been broke for decades, same with NCOER. They came out with new NCOER, and made it worse....
I hope they don't "TRY" to fix the AWARD system.....:blkeye:

 

[Gunz]

The Army AWARD system has been broke for decades, same with NCOER. They came out with new NCOER, and made it worse....
I hope they don't "TRY" to fix the AWARD system.....:blkeye:

Not just Army. All the branches. It's a crap shoot. Some people are in a position to influence who gets what when. And officers are probably more likely to be in those positions. Some feel the need to be hard-asses when it comes time to review recommendations for enlisted and NCO decorations. I'm not talking about combat officers; but in-the-rear-with-the-gear dudes who feel they have to downgrade the recommendations of combat officers for one reason or another.