19th Group Support schools?

e8f8d9

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Do soldiers in 19th Group Support have better options for schools compared to conventional NG? I want SF, but the family isn't ok with the length of the pipeline, so I'm looking at Support with 19th Group. Airborne is very important to me, which is a big reason I'm looking at 19th Group.

Ranger School is a big goal of mine too. Is it possible to go as Support with 19th group? Either Enlisted or Officer?
 

Arf

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Family isn’t okay with the length of the pipeline? That kind of makes my blood boil. I don’t know your circumstances but this is your life. 2 years is over a lot quicker than you think it is and if you don’t go for what you want to do you will blame family for keeping you from doing what you desire most.
 

AWP

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Ranger School is 2 months if you nail every gateway. Plenty of Batt Boys recycled once or twice. Hope your success rate equals your family's patience...

Unless something changed, the only V coded slots in Support are SOT-A's and their pipeline rivals that of 18 series.

School hunting is generally frowned upon. Start sniffing around that path and you won't have to worry about schools.

Good luck.
 

e8f8d9

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Family isn’t okay with the length of the pipeline? That kind of makes my blood boil. I don’t know your circumstances but this is your life. 2 years is over a lot quicker than you think it is and if you don’t go for what you want to do you will blame family for keeping you from doing what you desire most.
It is what it is. I'll keep trying to change their mind, but I don't think that will work.

Family isn’t okay with the length of the pipeline? That kind of makes my blood boil. I don’t know your circumstances but this is your life. 2 years is over a lot quicker than you think it is and if you don’t go for what you want to do you will blame family for keeping you from doing what you desire most.
If you guys have any advice, I would gladly consider it. It's just my wife and I. No kids. My wife just doesn't want to be alone for 1-2 years while I do this. She has a different thought process about deployments though. She's also not willing to give up her job to PCS with me if I'm selected. Her employer has an office 2.5 hours from Bragg (not sure what the rules are about staying in proximity). We could rent out our house while we're gone.

I'm non-prior service so I'll have to do the full pipeline including OSUT, Airborne, SFPC, etc

Ranger School is 2 months if you nail every gateway. Plenty of Batt Boys recycled once or twice. Hope your success rate equals your family's patience...

Unless something changed, the only V coded slots in Support are SOT-A's and their pipeline rivals that of 18 series.

School hunting is generally frowned upon. Start sniffing around that path and you won't have to worry about schools.

Good luck.
Thanks for the info. I'm not wanting to go to pad my ego, I just want the training. If I can't be SF, I'd atleast want to be the best support soldier I can be.
 

medicchick

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How is it she's ok with deployments that can last over a year but not schools where you can see each other? As a former military wife, that's just wack. If she's not willing to change any part of her life to support your dream is it worth it? Sounds like either way someone is going to be miserable and resentful.
 

Arf

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Thanks for the info. I'm not wanting to go to pad my ego, I just want the training. If I can't be SF, I'd atleast want to be the best support soldier I can be.


I would be lying if I said that ego has zero part in it. All of us aspired to be SOF at some point because we wanted to be the best in a community that is highly selective.

I think if you go support when your heart is set on SF, you will always have a chip on your shoulder that you did not at least try. If you try and fail then at least you gave it a shot.
How is it she's ok with deployments that can last over a year but not schools where you can see each other? As a former military wife, that's just wack. If she's not willing to change any part of her life to support your dream is it worth it? Sounds like either way someone is going to be miserable and resentful.


I agree with this statement. It sounds like this is the beginning of a lot of passive aggression and resentment. You are going to be gone a lot, not just with deployment, but schools take a lot of time in remote places.
 

LimaPanther

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One of the things I do not see addressed. You talk a lot about your wife not wanting you gone for all the training. What would your employer think about you being gone that much?
 

Steve1839

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I have friends that sacrificed their marriage for their career...I have friends that gave up a career they loved for their family...there are folks that gave up a career to save a marriage and wound up getting divorced anyway...I can't speak to what the divorce rate is in SF now, but when I was in, I'd say the percentage was better than 50%...you do not have a frivolous choice in front of you...
 

Cookie_

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So, schools outside of MOS requirements aren't exactly hard to come by, but they aren't easy either.

Things like Air Assault, Mountain, CLS/combatives/other 40 hour course are all generally common, provided your unit has the schools budget for it and you've dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's.

As an NCO, things like pathfinder and jump master become available.

If you're super duper fucking squared away, command likes you, and the budget allows?
Maybe you can get Ranger School.

Even then, it also depends on MOS. If you're a medic, commo, or some other MOS that deploys with the teams a lot? Then it's more possible.

If you're a cook(like me) ammo guy, or supply though? You'd better be amazing to win them over.

Common theme throughout all of this is time+performance within the unit.
 

e8f8d9

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Would anyone be willing to break down how much time we could potentially have together during the pipeline? I understand if my wife PCS'd with me that we'd have some weekends off. What about if she doesn't come with me. Can I go visit her? Can she come visit me? Thank you
 

Ooh-Rah

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This is a very frustrating thread to read. Based solely on my perception of your posts, it appears you want like the idea of having the the job, without having to make the personal sacrifices that nearly every other service member has had to make.
 

e8f8d9

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One of the things I do not see addressed. You talk a lot about your wife not wanting you gone for all the training. What would your employer think about you being gone that much?
I have a very stable state job. I'm not too worried about what they think about it.

This is a very frustrating thread to read. Based solely on my perception of your posts, it appears you want like the idea of having the the job, without having to make the personal sacrifices that nearly every other service member has had to make.
I'm very willing to endure whatever sacrifices are necessary to do this, short of getting divorced to do it.
 

Hillclimb

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@Cookie_ nailed it. What type of support guy do you want to be should probably be what you should answer first. Someone is gonna ask eventually "What equity am I building in the team by giving this guy all these schools."

As long as you dont expect to goto all the highspeed shooting/sniper/intel/SERE/breaching type courses, and have some degree of expectation management
 

DZ

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Would anyone be willing to break down how much time we could potentially have together during the pipeline? I understand if my wife PCS'd with me that we'd have some weekends off. What about if she doesn't come with me. Can I go visit her? Can she come visit me? Thank you
You will be away from your wife from the beginning of basic, through OSUT, Airborne, SF prep course, and SFAS. If you get selected, your wife will be able to move out to Bragg if that's what you choose.

Once you start the course you will be gone for 3 weeks of SERE, then home for 12 weeks of MOS, gone for 7 weeks of common skills training, home for a week, gone for 4 weeks of Robin Sage, then home for 6 months of language training.

It is highly unlikely you'll be able to take leave and travel anywhere during the course, besides the 2 weeks of Christmas leave. However, your wife could come travel to see you whenever she wants. You would have to pay for a hotel however, since you'd be in the barracks with a room mate.

I recommend people PCS their family for the course if possible. It makes things a lot easier as you wouldn't have to be in the barracks, and could have a relatively normal home life.

Things change if your a 18D, as the training is much longer.

If you have more questions, search the forum, as this isn't the first time I've answered this question. I'm confident most questions you have, have already been answered.

One more thing. This isn't something you go into half heartily, you need to be all in with no reservations, and your spouse must be the same way, or else you're going to fail.
 

Marauder06

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I was a support guy in 5th Group. 5th Group isn't 19th Group, and it was a long time ago, but...

1) My experience was that Group tends to not want to send red-hats to training or schools, particularly "career enhancing" (e.g. badgefinding) schools. So good luck with that.

2) The training you should be seeking is the training that is going to make you a better enabler. Will Ranger School do that? Well, it will certainly enhance your credibility with the long tab guys. At first. But then you have to perform. So instead of prestige schools, maybe you should concentrate on MOS-enhancing schools. I spent a lot of time doing intel in SOF units, and in all that time, and seven tours downrange, I never once did anything "Ranger"-like. I did, however, do a whole bunch of intel stuff. And I was good at it, because that's what I prioritized. And that's probably why I got to keep doing it.

4) I commanded the Group MI Detachment and later the Group Support Company in 5th Group. Back in the day, all of the Ranger (V) coded MI MOSs in 5th Group were in the Group MID, so they all worked for me. So I had many Ranger-coded billets but I think I had something like two total Ranger-qualified MI Soldiers. We just had other priorities. And when we deployed no one wore patches anyway, so the people we were supporting 1) didn't know whether we were Ranger qualified, and 2) didn't care. All that mattered was how well we could do the job. At the end of the day those ODAs have PLENTY of people who can "Ranger." They need people who can <<<insert skilled support MOS here>>>.

5) I will never say that having a Ranger Tab doesn't matter, because it does. However, there are things that matter more. For me, it's always family first. No matter how good you are, no matter what you do in the Army, one day the Army will leave you, or you will leave it. However, if you do it right, your family will always be there for you. So my advice is to always prioritize family. But family and SOF are not always mutually exclusive. Communication and clear expectations are key. I suggest you figure out what works for your family, get REALLY good at your job, THEN worry about things like Ranger School.

6) Others have had different experiences and perspectives, and YMMV.
 

Arf

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You will be away from your wife from the beginning of basic, through OSUT, Airborne, SF prep course, and SFAS. If you get selected, your wife will be able to move out to Bragg if that's what you choose.

Once you start the course you will be gone for 3 weeks of SERE, then home for 12 weeks of MOS, gone for 7 weeks of common skills training, home for a week, gone for 4 weeks of Robin Sage, then home for 6 months of language training.

It is highly unlikely you'll be able to take leave and travel anywhere during the course, besides the 2 weeks of Christmas leave. However, your wife could come travel to see you whenever she wants. You would have to pay for a hotel however, since you'd be in the barracks with a room mate.

I recommend people PCS their family for the course if possible. It makes things a lot easier as you wouldn't have to be in the barracks, and could have a relatively normal home life.

Things change if your a 18D, as the training is much longer.

If you have more questions, search the forum, as this isn't the first time I've answered this question. I'm confident most questions you have, have already been answered.

One more thing. This isn't something you go into half heartily, you need to be all in with no reservations, and your spouse must be the same way, or else you're going to fail.



Thank you @DZ for taking the time to
be very specific with answering his question!


1) My experience was that Group tends to not want to send red-hats to training or schools, particularly "career enhancing" (e.g. badgefinding) schools. So good luck with that.

Could you explain to the Seamen what a red hat is?

@Marauder06, the rest of your post is much appreciated. This thread isn’t my original post, but a lot of us (me) are getting a lot out of this as well.
 

Cookie_

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Could you explain to the Seamen what a red hat is?

I haven't ever heard red hat (outside of referring to Parachute Riggers specifically), but I'm pretty sure he's just referring to support troops as a whole.

Support troops in SF groups are(at a minimum) airborne qualified, so Maroon beret=red hat.

As there isn't really a standard indoc program for those support positions, you can get some less than stellar Joe's in Group. This can lead to Group Command not really wanting to devote resources to people who aren't team guys/high speed enablers.

For example, I recently had a soldier come to my guard unit from active duty, were he served all 8 years between two groups. Even though he's airborne qualified, he hasn't jumped in years because (according to him) a large number of support troops were removed from jump status at his last unit. If I recall correctly, his understanding was only the parachute riggers and SOT-A members still jumped.

ETA: @AWP beat me to it
 

e8f8d9

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You will be away from your wife from the beginning of basic, through OSUT, Airborne, SF prep course, and SFAS. If you get selected, your wife will be able to move out to Bragg if that's what you choose.

Once you start the course you will be gone for 3 weeks of SERE, then home for 12 weeks of MOS, gone for 7 weeks of common skills training, home for a week, gone for 4 weeks of Robin Sage, then home for 6 months of language training.

It is highly unlikely you'll be able to take leave and travel anywhere during the course, besides the 2 weeks of Christmas leave. However, your wife could come travel to see you whenever she wants. You would have to pay for a hotel however, since you'd be in the barracks with a room mate.

I recommend people PCS their family for the course if possible. It makes things a lot easier as you wouldn't have to be in the barracks, and could have a relatively normal home life.

Things change if your a 18D, as the training is much longer.

If you have more questions, search the forum, as this isn't the first time I've answered this question. I'm confident most questions you have, have already been answered.

One more thing. This isn't something you go into half heartily, you need to be all in with no reservations, and your spouse must be the same way, or else you're going to fail.
You will be away from your wife from the beginning of basic, through OSUT, Airborne, SF prep course, and SFAS. If you get selected, your wife will be able to move out to Bragg if that's what you choose.

Once you start the course you will be gone for 3 weeks of SERE, then home for 12 weeks of MOS, gone for 7 weeks of common skills training, home for a week, gone for 4 weeks of Robin Sage, then home for 6 months of language training.

It is highly unlikely you'll be able to take leave and travel anywhere during the course, besides the 2 weeks of Christmas leave. However, your wife could come travel to see you whenever she wants. You would have to pay for a hotel however, since you'd be in the barracks with a room mate.

I recommend people PCS their family for the course if possible. It makes things a lot easier as you wouldn't have to be in the barracks, and could have a relatively normal home life.

Things change if your a 18D, as the training is much longer.

If you have more questions, search the forum, as this isn't the first time I've answered this question. I'm confident most questions you have, have already been answered.

One more thing. This isn't something you go into half heartily, you need to be all in with no reservations, and your spouse must be the same way, or else you're going to fail.
Thank you for taking the time to break it down. That seems to parallel other info I've heard.

I feel like my wife would be more game if she understood the community and FRG aspect to it all. I also have a good friend and his wife who are stationed in Fort Bragg, so she would have people to meet and talk to.
 
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