35M Language Requirement Returning

[Dienekes]

Agree fully but the time required to maintain 3's would keep you guys away from your primary work. Hell, even your BN's 35Ps aren't even focused on language as other skills are given higher priorities.

Terps too have problems with local dialects and colloquial usage (especially in AF).

That's what I was getting at.

The jump from a 1+ to a 2 is huge. For me (and I think I speak for most others), a 3 would be an unattainable goal unless it was my focus for 40 hours a week.

Legitimate question: Do y'all ever practice with other soldiers in the unit? For example, walking down the hall shooting the shit in the target language just to practice?

Would a soldier with a language requirement be authorized to attend a short-term intensive program such as the Middlebury Summer Programs, etc? Just curious as I am applying to that this summer so that I can get my foreign language credit to graduate, and it seemed to me that it might be something worthwhile for the Army/Intelligence services in general.

 

[Brill]

I defer to @Etype for 18-series stuff but 35-series are definitely eligible for Middlebury and the school is held in very high regards for their immersion programs.

 

[Salt USMC]

I defer to @Etype for 18-series stuff but 35-series are definitely eligible for Middlebury and the school is held in very high regards for their immersion programs.

Seconded. Didn't do Middlebury in the military, but one of my friends did their summer immersion program for Persian between second and third year, and she went from being middle-of-the-pack in our second year class to top of third year. It was really incredible.

 

[Etype]

Legitimate question: Do y'all ever practice with other soldiers in the unit? For example, walking down the hall shooting the shit in the target language just to practice?

Yes, all the time. The limiting factor isn't small talk. What most folks are lacking is political, economic and other current event related grammar.

I've never heard of an 18 series going to Middlebury, doesn't mean it doesn't happen though.

 

[Il Duce]

The Army has a pretty robust language training prep program for the DLPT that's pretty diverse. My BDE puts Soldiers through a variety of programs including language immersion in target countries - where they live on the economy, interact, and take classes. We don't send anyone to American colleges for training but I can't imagine those programs would be significantly better than what we have already.

 

[Brill]

We don't send anyone to American colleges for training but I can't imagine those programs would be significantly better than what we have already.

DOD has the budget for it and the training doesn't come from Army funds. Agree those programs are not better but just another tool.

 

[mtm379]

Due to this change in policy, would attending the defense language institute add to a new 35M's initial 3 year (+IET) adso since some languages covered there could take up to a year or more?

 

[Il Duce]

Yes, DLI will become a requirement for initial term 35Ms. My understanding is that almost always comes with an extra year on the active enlistment - though it may depend on the language. My guess is 35M will be a minimum 4 year enlistment from here on out - but it's always best to get that stuff straight from recruiting command. My guess is the training pipeline will look very similar - in terms of timeline - to 35P.

 

[mtm379]

That makes sense, 35P is now an initial 5 year commitment due to the need to attend the Defense Language Institute for six to 18 months prior to Advanced Individual Training. Thank you for the informative answer sir.

 

[DA SWO]

Yes, DLI will become a requirement for initial term 35Ms. My understanding is that almost always comes with an extra year on the active enlistment - though it may depend on the language. My guess is 35M will be a minimum 4 year enlistment from here on out - but it's always best to get that stuff straight from recruiting command. My guess is the training pipeline will look very similar - in terms of timeline - to 35P.

They need to clean DLI up then.
DLPT V is overly hard (admitted by the guy who designed it) and we lose good people every month because of the college mentality at DLI.

 

[Il Duce]

It's going to get worse before it gets better (if it ever does). DLI is shifting the graduation requirement from 2/2 to 2+/2+ in an effort to get after the precipitous drop in proficiency that happens to most linguists their first year in the operating force. I don't think it bodes well for graduation rates.

 

[DA SWO]

It's going to get worse before it gets better (if it ever does). DLI is shifting the graduation requirement from 2/2 to 2+/2+ in an effort to get after the precipitous drop in proficiency that happens to most linguists their first year in the operating force. I don't think it bodes well for graduation rates.

Agree, and we waste the non-graduates.
The AF/navy use their linguists differently than the Army.
We (AF) could stick a "non-graduate" into a RC-135 and still get useful work, just don't give them language pay until they pass the test.
Instead we flush them (after they have been in 8-36 months) and they go to other Fed Agencies or to College using VA bennies.

 

[Il Duce]

The Army can generally get decent use out of them as a cryptologic analyst (35N) - but for some reason the transfer between those MOS' becomes a huge pain. My BDE has started using some of them in OSINT - which is a good cross-discipline function. We find we end up with more problems with SIGINT Soldiers in clearances more than anything else. We've got a huge number of them in the Army who can't get access to NSANet - so can't do their jobs. Some have problems with clearances in general - but many others are fine on their general clearance, just can't pass the extra (often ridiculous) screening NSA uses.

It's a structural problem the Army needs to solve. Another problem we have is with retention of linguists. The Army uses a generic and incomprehensible retention system that goes exclusively off time in grade, time in service, MOS, and quotas. It's essentially exclusively about timing your needs with the needs of the Army. So, a 1/1 linguist, or barely 2/2 linguist walks in to re-enlist and if the timing is right it's fine - even if there's a 3/3 linguist waiting to come in a month later, and in that scenario the 3/3 will be told to pound sand or that they qualify to re-enlist as a rigger or something. It's easy to see how ridiculous the system is with linguists as the DLPT score is a clear differentiator of both talent and hard work. But, I think it's indicative of the problem with the larger Army retention program. We take the process (mostly) out of the hands of command teams and put it into that of 'career counselors' who know the retention system - but not MOS', Soldiers, or the Army.

Ok, probably time for me to climb off the soapbox and do some real work.