About Honesty.

[StriveForPerfection]

Good Afternoon Gents,
The last time I posted on here was over a year ago and I detailed my desire to serve in the Ranger Regiment. I am still completely committed to that goal. This past fall I was training in the pool and tore my labrum in my left shoulder, anterior to posterior. I have been rehabbing the past couple months and I will know by June whether I need surgery and/or STEM cell therapy, or won't need surgery at all. Here is my dilemma... Any sort of waiver that isn't "simple", such as Lasik or breaking a finger, disqualifies an Option 40 or airborne contract. Basically if I tell MEPS about it, even when my shoulder is 100%, they will most likely shoot my dreams right out of the sky. Because the surgery isn't invasive, there will be no scar or evidence of a surgery (besides all the evidence in my medical records obviously). MEPS would have no idea if I didn't tell them or they looked at my records. The way I see it I have two options.
1- Tell MEPS and roll the dice on a small chance of getting 11x option 40. Probably have to earn it after enlisting 11b.
2- Don't tell them and hope they don't find out my entire career.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'll update you guys as things progress.

 

[Kaldak]

DO NOT LIE AT MEPS.

Integrity is of the utmost importance. Look through this site.

Shouldn't even be a question you would consider asking.

 

[StriveForPerfection]

I apologize and it will not happen again. The stress of the shoulder situation got to me and I just wanted to throw it out there. No excuse.

 

[Brill]

1. You’re a dude so you don’t have a labia, whatever that is. Can I say that? I’m old so I don’t know who has what these days.

2. Never lie.

 

[policemedic]

Arthroscopic repair of a SLAP injury will leave scars.

If you're asking us whether you should lie, you have a lot of soul searching to do before you enlist in my Army--let alone try to become a Ranger.

 

[policemedic]

Speaking of honesty--

Good Afternoon Gents,
The last time I posted on here was over a year ago and I detailed my desire to serve in the Ranger Regiment. I am still completely committed to that goal.

No you didn't.

Hello! I'm a freshman honors college student and athlete. I am on the boxing team and I'm also an avid hiker, biker, skier, etc. I have every intention of joining the Air Force SOF after undergrad, specifically TACP (I currently cannot join because I'm in a really good situation in terms of scholarships and the company I work with). In addition, I train service dogs for veterans and tailor the dogs skills specifically to the individual veteran's needs. I'm excited to be a part of this community, and I hope to gain some insightful knowledge. Thanks for this opportunity - J.

TACP/AFSOF was your goal in your introductory post.

Overview: Hello. In the following paragraphs I will detail my physical and mental training for SFAS/SFQC, as well as my background and skills. I will also explain why I want to earn my spot in this amazing community. My goal is to get in contact with a SOF soldier that I can personally work with to maximize my effectiveness, as well as get feedback from the broader mentor community on other aspects of my training.

Oh, never mind. You're actually interested in Special Forces.

You'll never enlist.

 

[EqualReaction]

You may get away with it at MEPs. I know plenty of guys who lied about major things, and they were able to join the military with a SEAL contract. I don't know what goes into a Ranger contract, but I am sure there are similar requirements. That being said, what happens if you re injure it and they pull your record and find out you tore it before? I had a friend who got dropped at the same time I got dropped because he started having major chest pains. They found out he had a heart condition he knew about, and they tried to slap him with a fraudulent enlistment. He was lucky and was able to appeal it, and he won. If you reinjure it at anytime they could see that you had surgery, or that you tore it. It's very possible you could get slapped with a fraudulent enlistment if you are already in the military. Obviously having integrity is important, but also realize that if you lie that it will still probably bite you in the ass.

 

[compforce]

You may get away with it at MEPs. I know plenty of guys who lied about major things, and they were able to join the military with a SEAL contract. I don't know what goes into a Ranger contract, but I am sure there are similar requirements. That being said, what happens if you re injure it and they pull your record and find out you tore it before? I had a friend who got dropped at the same time I got dropped because he started having major chest pains. They found out he had a heart condition he knew about, and they tried to slap him with a fraudulent enlistment. He was lucky and was able to appeal it, and he won. If you reinjure it at anytime they could see that you had surgery, or that you tore it. It's very possible you could get slapped with a fraudulent enlistment if you are already in the military. Obviously having integrity is important, but also realize that if you lie that it will still probably bite you in the ass.

SOF is a different animal than most. IF you actually know people that got SEAL contracts by lying, they will be in trouble when they go for their clearances. Higher level clearances can and do include lifestyle polygraph tests and deep background investigations. When the military catches the lie, and they will, their career will be over and they will NOT be getting an honorable discharge. That's a permanent cap on the jobs that they can get in the civilian world. Is it really worth it?

Edit to fix pronoun confusion

 

[EqualReaction]

SOF is a different animal than most. IF you actually know people that got SEAL contracts by lying, they will be in trouble when they go for their clearances. Higher level clearances can and do include lifestyle polygraph tests and deep background investigations. When the military catches the lie, and they will, their career will be over and they will NOT be getting an honorable discharge. That's a permanent cap on the jobs that they can get in the civilian world. Is it really worth it?

Edit to fix pronoun confusion

All I know is that they were able to join and get slotted for a BUDs class. I filled out for a security clearance once I got my SO contract, but I think it was just to join the Navy. I didn't get very far so I have no clue what happens after prep school.

 

[Cookie_]

All I know is that they were able to join and get slotted for a BUDs class. I filled out for a security clearance once I got my SO contract, but I think it was just to join the Navy. I didn't get very far so I have no clue what happens after prep school.

As @compforce said, they most definitely got caught during the background check.
For a real world idea of how thorough they can be:

I just renewed my clearance recently. I had an investigator contact me last week to ask why I put I had no foreign contacts, when I have a chick I knew on my Instagram.
Luckily that's a real small and easily explained thing, but it was caught.

 

[Devildoc]

If you are not honest with the small things, how can you be trusted to be honest with the big things? Integrity check.

 

[EqualReaction]

As @compforce said, they most definitely got caught during the background check.
For a real world idea of how thorough they can be:

I just renewed my clearance recently. I had an investigator contact me last week to ask why I put I had no foreign contacts, when I have a chick I knew on my Instagram.
Luckily that's a real small and easily explained thing, but it was caught.

Dang that's an eye opener. I had no idea that they were that in depth. Big brother is watching you lol.

 

[Brill]

I just renewed my clearance recently. I had an investigator contact me last week to ask why I put I had no foreign contacts, when I have a chick I knew on my Instagram.

You should should have replied “Because I know what close and continuous or bound by affection means”. Then demand to speak to the USG supervisor of the case agent.

 

[Devildoc]

After 9/11, when I was in the reserve and no longer AD, I applied for a job which required a clearance. They were very interested to know that my brother-in-law was from Pakistan; it was almost like it would not matter if I told them I smoked crack while cruising gay child porn while beating my wife and listening to Hitler speeches, they were absolutely fixated in my BIL and our relationship.

 

[compforce]

Dang that's an eye opener. I had no idea that they were that in depth. Big brother is watching you lol.

Worse than that, your neighbors are watching you. Some investigations include visits to them.

 

[Kaldak]

@F.CASTLE care to explain to me the dislike?

 

[Deleted member 2517]

Everyone is freaking out but guess what? I lied. Everyone I know lied about some medical issue. I had a hernia, a broken wrist, and shoulder surgery all before I joined and guess what? I didn’t say SHIT. I’m sure a lot of people on here have done the same thing.

Now @StriveForPerfection you are enlisting at a time when they are more likely to give waivers as we are not drawing down and hurting for people. If you tell the doc you may still get a waiver. Your post was TLDR but from what I gather you also need to figure out WTF you want to do. So do that and then decide the course of action you want to take as far as your medical issues go.

Like my recruiter told me- “you can get charged for lying about your medical history... but no one in the DOD gets paid enough to look into that...”


ETA: we are really torching a guy who is willing to put himself at risk to follow his dreams and serve? Don’t we usually applaud people for “finding a way”? Let’s all chill out.

 

[Kaldak]

Everyone is freaking out but guess what? I lied. Everyone I know lied about some medical issue. I had a hernia, a broken wrist, and shoulder surgery all before I joined and guess what? I didn’t say SHIT. I’m sure a lot of people on here have done the same thing.

Now @StriveForPerfection you are enlisting at a time when they are more likely to give waivers as we are not drawing down and hurting for people. If you tell the doc you may still get a waiver. Your post was TLDR but from what I gather you also need to figure out WTF you want to do. So do that and then decide the course of action you want to take as far as your medical issues go.

Like my recruiter told me- “you can get charged for lying about your medical history... but no one in the DOD gets paid enough to look into that...”


ETA: we are really torching a guy who is willing to put himself at risk to follow his dreams and serve? Don’t we usually applaud people for “finding a way”? Let’s all chill out.

I didn't lie. I went through the waiver process and join, and served.

Because you got away with breaking the law, doesn't mean you should advocate it to others.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

I didn't lie. I went through the waiver process and join, and served.

Because you got away with breaking the law, doesn't mean you should advocate it to others.

Guess we might as well go ahead and start discharging whole squads... the waiver process is atrocious, and rarely works. Glad it did so for you, but that isn’t the case for most guys I know.

 

[amlove21]

So, as always, the answer is somewhere in the gray area that we live in.

It’s now more of an ethical conversation amongst combat veterans as opposed to the OPs original intent which was an ask for advice, it seems.

So let’s get back to the matter at hand and only that.

@StriveForPerfection any follow on questions here?