ACU VS MULTICAM

JJOIFVET

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Ok guys here is one for you. I pretty much know what you are going to say and I am sure I agree. I would like to know why the Army went to the ACU instead of the MARPAT or the MULTICAM pattern. I know the MULTICAM patter works well in several different environments. I have used it in the sand box and plan on using them again. I would love to see a study that compares them side by side in several environments.

Oh and BTW, who was the General that bought off on the ACUs?
 

DA SWO

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Ok guys here is one for you. I pretty much know what you are going to say and I am sure I agree. I would like to know why the Army went to the ACU instead of the MARPAT or the MULTICAM pattern. I know the MULTICAM patter works well in several different environments. I have used it in the sand box and plan on using them again. I would love to see a study that compares them side by side in several environments.

Oh and BTW, who was the General that bought off on the ACUs?

Some guy named Schoomaker IIRC.

ACU was an attempt to save money, rules were DCU's came out of the unit budget, BDU's were a clothing allowance item.
Everyone ('cept the Marines) figured they would save money with a one color for all environments type camo.

I can't explain why ACU/ABU were selected instead of Multicam, may be because multicam is a patented item, and would require a sole source contract leaving us vulnerable to price gouging.

Personally, I don't understand why DCU didn't become the issue uniform, and BDU become the deployment, PCS to Korea/Europe uniform. Would have been cheaper.
 

JJOIFVET

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There are three companies that sell the Multicam pattern. Crye Precision, Propper and Tru Spec. At the time when ACUs come out, I don't think all three companies were out. Either way, the color pattern the Army chose is terrible. I don't see where it blends into any environment.
 

Pete S

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As far as I know MARPAT is "patented" by the USMC.
Supposedly this was done so that the other services couldn't use it.
Very petty.
I still haven't figured out if the Georgian camo is a MARPAT knockoff, or a licensed copy.

MultiCam does look effective, and with someone other then Crye making it, it should be a viable option now.
Crye is good stuff, but damn is it expensive.
 

koz

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I've also heard that is has to do with the Army not wanting to use something that the Marines "invented." At the pentagon level, there is some very childish behavior.

There's a good example about a new Hmmwv turret - Recently three prototypes were submitted to the army, one (the worst one and most expensive) was chosen after testing.. Marines wanted one of the ones we didn't and the Army said no. BTW the one the Marines wanted was the only one to pass the roll over test and was the favorite by all the guys who tested them.. And the one chosen was 5 times more expensive. $7k vs $35k...

I think there's also the reason we'll have the SCAR rammed down our throats... Some higher up (Gen or project manager) has a great consulting job lined up after retirement and he'll use all his power to get something in the inventory. HK416's, POF, and a couple other manufactures were not allowed to be tested the same time the SCAR was first shown to USASOC higher-ups. The tests were basically against the M4 only..

Sorry for the ramble...
 

JJOIFVET

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I've also heard that is has to do with the Army not wanting to use something that the Marines "invented." At the pentagon level, there is some very childish behavior.

There's a good example about a new Hmmwv turret - Recently three prototypes were submitted to the army, one (the worst one and most expensive) was chosen after testing.. Marines wanted one of the ones we didn't and the Army said no. BTW the one the Marines wanted was the only one to pass the roll over test and was the favorite by all the guys who tested them.. And the one chosen was 5 times more expensive. $7k vs $35k...

I think there's also the reason we'll have the SCAR rammed down our throats... Some higher up (Gen or project manager) has a great consulting job lined up after retirement and he'll use all his power to get something in the inventory. HK416's, POF, and a couple other manufactures were not allowed to be tested the same time the SCAR was first shown to USASOC higher-ups. The tests were basically against the M4 only..

Sorry for the ramble...

I couldn't agree with you more. I have heard that the Marines offered up the MARPAT pattern to the Army, but they said no. It makes no damn sense to me, and then I read an article today in the Army times and they put the new updates to the ACU, but the color pattern didn't change, just some buttons and velcro. The project manager should be fired. They should test these things before they put them in the inventory, like the ACU. Did they run any tests on it at all?

Yes the Crye Precision is expensive, but worth every penny, I have two sets as well as everyone on my team and we wear them over seas and they work great.
 

AssadUSMC

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For you SOF types, is there any leeway on personal choice for your "get dirty" gear? I know from my Marine days that there is MAJOR rigidity in uniformity (pun intended), but I was led to believe you guys could mix-and-match with commercial stuff and mil gear.

In my current gig, I can wear WTF I want to - it's just a matter of taking a lot of grief if I stroll by in multi-cam and the (insert color here) guys see me. ;)
 

Marauder06

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It still pisses me off that we aren't all in the same uniform anymore.

I don't know why the Army didn't get on board with the Marines' MARPAT in the past, but I do know we can't use their uniforms now, or their boots, because they've got the Marine emblem all over them.
 

AssadUSMC

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What is the Army seal this week anyway? }:-)


emblem_1_op_564x600.jpg
 

Marauder06

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lol

The Marines already have a better uniform, they don't want to use ours ;)

But the number of Air Force and Navy personnel I've seen forward wearing ACUs indicate to me that it would have been entirely possible for us to all be in the same uniform... now we're going to have to stock like six different types of uniforms and assorted accoutrements- that ought to be good in the combat zones :uhh: plus God knows how much each service spent in R&D and procurement just so we could all look different from each other :doh::mad:
 

AssadUSMC

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Just give everyone multicam and be done w/it.

Speaking of which, you guys know that shirt that guys wear with the regular ACU sleeves and "underarmor"-type torso to wear with armor? WTF is with troops running around Qandahar airport at the little "mall" there with those shirts and no armor? Damn that is lame...
 

Diamondback 2/2

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Yeah I know, I don't want to wear the stupid ACU's either...

Still waiting on that new stuff to finish the field tests and get issued over the next 8 years our budget gets cut.... Oh wait, thats right I am going to the private side and then I can wear what ever the hell I want..... Me thinky I will wear a brown raider suit and my Cav hat! }:-)
 

AssadUSMC

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Oh wait, thats right I am going to the private side and then I can wear what ever the hell I want..... Me thinky I will wear a brown raider suit and my Cav hat! }:-)

Damn right... However you will laugh VERY hard when you see analysts and mega-fobbits running around decked out in multicam and MICH helmets. :D
 

Viper1

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I couldn't agree with you more. I have heard that the Marines offered up the MARPAT pattern to the Army, but they said no. It makes no damn sense to me, and then I read an article today in the Army times and they put the new updates to the ACU, but the color pattern didn't change, just some buttons and velcro. The project manager should be fired. They should test these things before they put them in the inventory, like the ACU. Did they run any tests on it at all?

Yes the Crye Precision is expensive, but worth every penny, I have two sets as well as everyone on my team and we wear them over seas and they work great.

I read the same article in Army times today. Some of the "improvements" are take away from the BDUs.

As the saying goes: "If it ain't broke......"
 

Viper1

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Just give everyone multicam and be done w/it.

Speaking of which, you guys know that shirt that guys wear with the regular ACU sleeves and "underarmor"-type torso to wear with armor? WTF is with troops running around Qandahar airport at the little "mall" there with those shirts and no armor? Damn that is lame...

Yeah those are the ACU Combat shirts. Fielded those to my BN when I was the S-4 last year. Wore it a couple times on visits to the COP and JSS.

The shirt smells funny, and it never goes away. No big issue.

The front is breathable so it is comfortable underneath the IOTV. The sleeves have built in elbow pads, so if it is the right size that is a plus for the wearer.

The minus: The sleeves are built thick and don't breathe at all. Horrible, especially in hot weather.

Other than that, I think it is decent (minus the Army Strong logo on the front). I'd much prefer a space to sew Name and blood type.
 

koz

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For you SOF types, is there any leeway on personal choice for your "get dirty" gear? I know from my Marine days that there is MAJOR rigidity in uniformity (pun intended), but I was led to believe you guys could mix-and-match with commercial stuff and mil gear.

In my current gig, I can wear WTF I want to - it's just a matter of taking a lot of grief if I stroll by in multi-cam and the (insert color here) guys see me. ;)

Yes there is some leeway on uniforms. One tour, we pretty much wore DCU's around the base, otherwise it was carharts, commercial cargo pants, wicking T-shirts (before they were available in the mil-system), Mountain Hardware, North Face, Patagonia, Cabelas jackets....
 

AssadUSMC

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That's what I figured... The HSLD guys I was around in Iraq were in multicam, the similar guys in Astan were in the gear you described, then some other hut-hut dudes were in desert MARPAT. All were TF guys, so I was a little confused. I usually run around in cargo pants, UA shirts, and fleece when it's "breezy". :)
 
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