AF Special Tactics Officers go to MARSOC training

[Devildoc]

I couldn't figure out whether to put it here or under the Marine section, and heads it is:

Air Force Special Tactics integrate into Marine Raider training > Air Force Special Tactics (24 SOW) > Article Display

 

[CDG]

The USAF has been pushing for awhile to take the BA AFSCs and make them into self-sustaining teams that can take and hold ground, as opposed to always "just" being an attachment. #WhyNotUs

 

[Red Flag 1]

[Q

 

[Devildoc]

@CDG , it should not be such a novel idea. It makes a lot of sense, which is why I suppose it took so long to take off.

@Red Flag 1 , back in the mid-90s I had a friend, a Recon Marine, get orders to Ranger school. He was told, "there is no quitting, there is no failing. Either results in ending your career." It certainly motivated him. I wonder if they had similar motivation?

 

[Red Flag 1]

[Q

 

[Teufel]

1st Force used to participate in Angel Thunder every year with the USAF. We normally have CCTs and PJs in our dive school as well.

 

[AWP]

The USAF has been pushing for awhile to take the BA AFSCs and make them into self-sustaining teams that can take and hold ground, as opposed to always "just" being an attachment. #WhyNotUs

As an outsider, and given the specialization in the BA AFSC's, please help me understand the rationale behind this idea. You're going to take a group of high-demand, very low-density AFSCs and expect them to hold terrain? Or does the AF think it will add a bunch of meat-eaters to some AFSF slice and call it a day?

 

[Teufel]

As an outsider, and given the specialization in the BA AFSC's, please help me understand the rationale behind this idea. You're going to take a group of high-demand, very low-density AFSCs and expect them to hold terrain? Or does the AF think it will add a bunch of meat-eaters to some AFSF slice and call it a day?

I agree. SOF do not "hold ground" Infantry and mechanized brigades hold ground.

Where are my Rangers at? What happened to Darby's Rangers at Anzio?

 

[Ranger Psych]

I agree. SOF do not "hold ground" Infantry and mechanized brigades hold ground.

Where are my Rangers at? What happened to Darby's Rangers at Anzio?

Nothing good...

 

[CDG]

The rationale is that the other units in SOCOM are pushing harder and harder to get away from using USAF attachments, and just training dudes in their units to do it. NSW already does this with JTACs, and has been for a little while. They have their own NSW JTAC schoolhouse run by retired/separated TACPs, with maybe some other flavors of prior JTAC thrown in. The Army started creating their own JTACs within the 75th and USASFC, and up until the Kunduz incident was pushing pretty hard to create a new MOS of 18J, which would be JTAC. The USMC has always had their own JTACs. I won't speak to the medical/PJ side, but maybe @amlove21 can offer some insight. So the USAF started thinking, "Well hey, we got these guys that can shoot, move communicate. We have medical/PR specialists, we have drop zone, airfield survey, austere ATC specialists, we have guys that can control every type of fires. Fuck it, why shouldn't we field our own teams?"

ETA: Hold ground was a poor choice of words. Primary unit/team responsible for conducting operations within an AO is a better way of putting it.

 

[AWP]

ETA: Hold ground was a poor choice of words. Primary unit/team responsible for conducting operations within an AO is a better way of putting it.

Your career fields still lack depth, not talent. You have brilliant, extremely talented men, but nowhere near enough of them to own any battlespace. Using them outside of their specialties is stupid IMO. You don't have enough guys unless you add a bunch of AFSF to the mix and then what about your primary jobs...or the fact that you just added AFSF to your world?

 

[CDG]

Your career fields still lack depth, not talent. You have brilliant, extremely talented men, but nowhere near enough of them to own any battlespace. Using them outside of their specialties is stupid IMO. You don't have enough guys unless you add a bunch of AFSF to the mix and then what about your primary jobs...or the fact that you just added AFSF to your world?

I'm just passing along the intel man. I agree about the lack of depth. The CCT community is especially hard up right now. So many of the CCTs at STSs are junior airmen, or SNCOs. They have so many Instructor slots to fill with Indoc, CCS, Dive, AST, that all the staffs and techs are manning those positions. There has been no talk of adding AFSF to the mix. Supposedly certain units are already doing this, but I don't have firsthand confirmation of that.

 

[AWP]

I'm just passing along the intel man. I agree about the lack of depth. The CCT community is especially hard up right now. So many of the CCTs at STSs are junior airmen, or SNCOs. They have so many Instructor slots to fill with Indoc, CCS, Dive, AST, that all the staffs and techs are manning those positions. There has been no talk of adding AFSF to the mix. Supposedly certain units are already doing this, but I don't have firsthand confirmation of that.

I'm not beating up you personally, but the idea. The AF is so...schizo when it comes to the BA AFSC's that now it thinks (or enough people think for this idea to gain some traction) that you are as "good" as the Army or Marines. That's laughable. You have your jobs, they have their jobs...quality is irrelevant between apples and oranges.

If you were to look at the last 30+ years of PJ/CCT/ TACP politics and standing within the USAF (SOWTs are probably victims too, but I can't speak to any of that), this initiative is tragically laughable. The AF's handling of Battlefield Airmen is a Greek tragedy.

 

[TLDR20]

To the depth problem, it probably doesn't help that at least when I was joining the average recruiter had no fucking idea about battlefield airman jobs. I inquired about both PJ and CCT and got a pretty dumbass look from the recruiters.

 

[CDG]

I'm not beating up you personally, but the idea. The AF is so...schizo when it comes to the BA AFSC's that now it thinks (or enough people think for this idea to gain some traction) that you are as "good" as the Army or Marines. That's laughable. You have your jobs, they have their jobs...quality is irrelevant between apples and oranges.

If you were to look at the last 30+ years of PJ/CCT/ TACP politics and standing within the USAF (SOWTs are probably victims too, but I can't speak to any of that), this initiative is tragically laughable. The AF's handling of Battlefield Airmen is a Greek tragedy.

I didn't take anything personally. Just making it clear that I'm not advocating for the idea. The AF will never fully understand or most efficiently utilize the BA AFSCs.

To the depth problem, it probably doesn't help that at least when I was joining the average recruiter had no fucking idea about battlefield airman jobs. I inquired about both PJ and CCT and got a pretty dumbass look from the recruiters.

Yep. They were doing TACP specific recruiters at the Guard ASOSs for awhile, but the idea kind of fizzled out.