Afghans kill over Koran burning

[x SF med]

Mara - all Res ipsa loquitor means is "the thing speaks for itself".

The reasonable man test is the key - would a reasonable man have pissed on a very volatile foreign radical population (with whom we are currently at war) by burning their sacred text and posting it on the internet... and then say that God told him to?

I don't think either side is right - we have a Florida redneck and a bunch of Muslim rednecks being stupid on opposite sides of the world and getting others killed as a result.... In the name of their respective Gods.

In'sh Allah...
In nomine Patre...

 

[pardus]

We reaaaalllly need to entice a lawyer to become a member of our site... or a member who is already a lawyer and has been keeping quiet about it needs to start chiming in.

I spoke with a lawyer last night who is a long time though absent member of the board. He's also from Florida...
I'll try and get him to chime in.

 

[DA SWO]

The pastor fails the reasonable man test. Res ispsa loquitor.

I am not arguing anything - just stating a fact - the pastor is a dumbass attention whore who's actions and need to be the center of view may have been the proximate cause for hundreds of death at this point - and possibly thousands in the future. The act was legal, but not prudent. The use of religion as an excuse, is weak at best - who is this dickwad? Zwingli? Luther? Wesley? Calvin? Ras Tafari? No, he's a dumbass redneck with a video camera, lighter fluid, a zippo and a bad attitude with a really bad idea.

Res ispsa loquitor actually means "the Act Speks for itself" per my resident JAG Officer.
Said JAF Off also states that comparing Afghani Reasonable Man with the American Reasonable Man is not a valid comparison, and you would have to a) apply their standard to their actions and b) apply their standard to other people's actions.
For Example:
Taliban Blow up statue of Budda, Buddists worldwide stone and burn embassies belonging to muslim nations.
That would be reasonable using the Taliban Reasonable Man Standard.
AnotherExample:
Taliban burn religious tracts that don't conform to their beliefs.
Using the Taliban Reasonable Man concept someone here would bun religious books that don't conform to their beliefs, wait, that's what the guy in FL did.
So I guess it's ok because we used the Taliban/Muslim Reasonable Man Theory as our standard.

Reverand Dipshit lives in America, and his actions are allowed under our law. Does it suck for the guys/gals in A-stan; yes.
But we can not allow our constitutional freedoms to be limited by people in another country.
Anti-Islam statements sometimes appear on this site, should ss.com be taken off the web because someone in Afghanistan may take offense and organize a riot?

 

[x SF med]

SOWT-
Although the act is legal in the US, is it prudent in the light of the current world situation? Or is it akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater, with armed assailants out side shooting those who exit the building?

Again, "right" and "reasonable" are dependent on the culture/morality/ laws/terrain/situation of the party(ies) - were the Pastor's actions legal - yes. Were the Pastor's actions "reasonable and prudent", not at this juncture... as can be seen by the actions of those offended - who in their culture are right.

Two wrongs don't make a right... but 3 lefts do. Just saying...y'know... that because it is protected by law, an action may not be wholly 'right'.

An example - a person is on an FID mission, and has taken the culture classes (how not to piss off those who you teach - surround you and hold your life in their hands) and blatantly decides to disregard them getting his team tossed and couple of guys hurt. Lets say he ate with this left hand at a banquet - blatantly, after being corrected, at the head table with the village leaders (political and religous) during a religious feast -becuase he didn't think... he was an American. The word goes out and the entire FID program is set back. The guy wan't wrong by American standards - but his actions had further reaching consequences - because for that short period of time, his 'reasonability' was not reasonable.

The pastor ate with his left hand at the banquet and then posted it on the internet - and the guests at the banquet had been chewing khef and bhat and opium all day, and were armed. Go ahead and burn the Q'ran - just don't post it on the internet.

 

[Scotth]

Going to the guys website it looks more like he is trying to make money on his anti-Islam crusade. He is selling books and merchandise on his website and is planning on taking his show on the road in April to Mich to hold protest at a large mosque in Dearborn.

This issue isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[Purple]

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion. - S Weinberg

Morality is doing what's right, regardless of what you are told. A lot of religious morality is doing what you are told, no matter whether or not it is right. -JA Thomson

All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish {Islamic}, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. - Thomas Paine

Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion, several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven. - Mark Twain

It has all been said before...but maybe somebody burned those books, too, and the message has been lost. Sad.

And so it goes...

Purple

 

[x SF med]

Going to the guys website it looks more like he is trying to make money on his anti-Islam crusade. He is selling books and merchandise on his website and is planning on taking his show on the road in April to Mich to hold protest at a large mosque in Dearborn.

This issue isn't going away anytime soon.

...and, I ask again - is he a reasonable man, or just a greedy and insensitive man - using religion as a shield so that he can fill his pockets with no regard of the cost to others?

He's posted on the web that he is planning another round of this?

Time to make sure the body armor and K-pot are handy... rifles and pistols are clean, knives sharp and there's plenty of ammo.... this idiot is going to try to bring this fight into the heartland instead of leaving it in their backyard.

 

[DA SWO]

SOWT-
Although the act is legal in the US, is it prudent in the light of the current world situation? Or is it akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater, with armed assailants out side shooting those who exit the building?

Again, "right" and "reasonable" are dependent on the culture/morality/ laws/terrain/situation of the party(ies) - were the Pastor's actions legal - yes. Were the Pastor's actions "reasonable and prudent", not at this juncture... as can be seen by the actions of those offended - who in their culture are right.

Two wrongs don't make a right... but 3 lefts do. Just saying...y'know... that because it is protected by law, an action may not be wholly 'right'.

An example - a person is on an FID mission, and has taken the culture classes (how not to piss off those who you teach - surround you and hold your life in their hands) and blatantly decides to disregard them getting his team tossed and couple of guys hurt. Lets say he ate with this left hand at a banquet - blatantly, after being corrected, at the head table with the village leaders (political and religous) during a religious feast -becuase he didn't think... he was an American. The word goes out and the entire FID program is set back. The guy wan't wrong by American standards - but his actions had further reaching consequences - because for that short period of time, his 'reasonability' was not reasonable.

The pastor ate with his left hand at the banquet and then posted it on the internet - and the guests at the banquet had been chewing khef and bhat and opium all day, and were armed. Go ahead and burn the Q'ran - just don't post it on the internet.

You are mixing apples and oranges.
Shut the Reverend down so as to keep Afghani's happy and keep guys safe. Awesome, what other part of the constitution should we suspend to ensure folks deployed are not in danger?

 

[Scotth]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Jones should be stopped or silenced in anyway by the government.

We are just unhappy that US men and women in harms way will have to live with greater threats to there security and increased difficulties in completing missions in places like Afghanistan, if it doesn't undermine it completely.

Not to mention in the larger picture it diminishes are ability, as a nation, to positively impact all the events happening in North Africa and the Middle East. He is doing more to help AQ and other radicals even though he claims to oppose them. Just when AQ impact was being diminished this retard comes along and throws them a bone.

He has the legal right to do what he is doing but if I had the chance to talk to him I would say,

 

[SpitfireV]

I'd do him for manslaughter.

 

[DA SWO]

I'd do him for manslaughter.

How about doing Karzai too?

 

[SpitfireV]

He's not the point.

 

[x SF med]

My argument is not to stop him, but to question his motives. He has the right as an American to say what he likes, I have the right to argue that what he has said or done is not in the best interest of the Country, and I do not have the right to harm him nor impinge upon his rights, unless he is the proximate cause of danger/harm to another individual in my sight, and at that point only to stop him from that act.

My thoughts are that he is a retard, and is using religion as an excuse to line his pockets and create fear.

 

[Purple]

To me, this current episode of that globally popular and seemingly never-ending theological soap opera - "As The World Burns" - is, sorrowfully, little more than a continuation of one of the oldest and most ignoble stories of the History of mankind - one group of self-aggrandized cretins provoking another group of self-aggrandized cretins, with many innocent people being harmed.

Sad.

Purple

 

[DA SWO]

My argument is not to stop him, but to question his motives. He has the right as an American to say what he likes, I have the right to argue that what he has said or done is not in the best interest of the Country, and I do not have the right to harm him nor impinge upon his rights, unless he is the proximate cause of danger/harm to another individual in my sight, and at that point only to stop him from that act.

My thoughts are that he is a retard, and is using religion as an excuse to line his pockets and create fear.

On this we agree.
He's an attention whore of the first degree.
That said, let him burn it, and frankly, suffer from the results. I won't weep when some home grown jihadi whacks his ass.
I get angry when the pols and others get bent out of shape over this (giving reverend Dipshit more attention) but stay mum when muslims burn churches, holt books, etc.

 

[pardus]

Reading all this I have to say that despite thinking the Pastor is dick juice in a jar, he does have the right and to do this and should be free to do it whenever he feels the desire to do so.
We cannot allow others to dictate the rights of Americans, the Constitution is black and white.

 

[Marauder06]

...
We cannot allow others to dictate the rights of Americans...

Concur.

 

[x SF med]

Concur.

It doesn't mean that the guy isn't a douchebag of the first degree though, does it? C'mon, Sir, Say it... the guy is a douche, but he has rights...

 

[Marauder06]

It doesn't mean that the guy isn't a douchebag of the first degree though, does it? C'mon, Sir, Say it... the guy is a douche, but he has rights...

I could not have expressed it any better than you just did. :cool:

 

[DA SWO]

It doesn't mean that the guy isn't a douchebag of the first degree though, does it? C'mon, Sir, Say it... the guy is a douche, but he has rights...

I agree.