Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[Cookie_]

For anyone who hasn't seen this yet, this article is describes the events and the video.

The jist of the situation is this.

Ahmaud Arbery was jogging through a neighborhood in Brunswick, Georgia. A man named George McMichael felt the Arbery matched the description of someone burglarizing houses under construction. George grabs a .357, and his son Travis grabs a shotgun.
They follow Arbery down the street, yelling at him to stop because they want to question him. When he doesn't, they speed ahead in an attempt to block the road. Travis gets out of the truck (with the shotgun) and stands in front of it.

At this point, we get cellphone video of what happens next.
Arbery runs up to the truck and begins passing it on the right side. We can't see what happened next, but he has crossed over and is wrestling for control of the shotgun with Travis, whom proceeds to shoot Arbery twice, killing him.
Travis and George claim they were enacting a citizen's arrest, and subsequently not charged back in Frebuary when this incident happened The fact that George was formerly a Brunswick District Attorney’s Office investigator is surely unrelated. It wasn't until this video was released that this shooting started to get looked at in more depth.

Now, I'm not law enforcement, but I know a decent number of you on the board are. I want your opinions.

Are Travis and George seemingly guilty of a crime, or is this more a citizen's arrest gone wrong?

From my(non-legal) perspective after seeing the video, would Arbery's attempt to disarm Travis not be seen as self defense? Or is it alone self defense after the other person physically touches you?

I know these are broad topics, but I feel like this case is going to become a firestorm.

 

[Kraut783]

Citizens arrest? No crime was witnessed, just call the police....people are freaking stupid.

FUBAR

tabbed for a more lengthy follow up.....

 

[SaintKP]

Citizen arrests are dumb, people are dumb.

I'm not a LEO but I don't see how this is self defense and I'd be amazed if they go for Stand Your Ground.

Would love to see the interrogation video...

 

[AWP]

I fail to see the problem.

Warm regards,
George Zimmerman

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I fail to see the problem.

Warm regards,
George Zimmerman

Nice!

I've spent the past hour trying to shoe-horn in a Zimmerman line but could not come up with the setup. Well done.

 

[SpitfireV]

It's like Kraut said, prima facie, there was no need for them to go anywhere near the guy. There wasn't a crime or even a reasonable suspicion of a crime ("matching a description" is so vague) and it wasn't out in the whops where it would take police a long time to turn up so...have the police do what your taxes pay them for.

 

[Bambi]

Yeah let’s not call the police instead let’s go murder an innocent man because AMERICA!!! The two of them need to rot in a cell.

 

[Marauder06]

-this looks bad

-first reports are almost always wrong

-there is almost always more to the story than what one shaky couple-second perspective shows

-this looks bad

 

[AWP]

I'm just curious what led to him wrestling for control of a weapon. The second that happens, someone dies and he's in a 2v1 situation. Unless you're john Wick, you don't survive that encounter.

This will play out like Zimmerman.

 

[Marauder06]

I watched the video, and I'll also add that that even if the victim committed the crime of which he was suspected (I think that's the story?), that's a terrible way for him to die.

 

[Marauder06]

I'm just curious what led to him wrestling for control of a weapon. The second that happens, someone dies and he's in a 2v1 situation. Unless you're john Wick, you don't survive that encounter.

This will play out like Zimmerman.

I wonder if he thought he had to go it. Two armed men are after me in a neighborhood I don't know, for a reason I don't understand? Doing the unexpected and grabbing that gun might be my only means of making it out of there.

 

[AWP]

I wonder if he thought he had to go it. Two armed men are after me in a neighborhood I don't know, for a reason I don't understand? Doing the unexpected and grabbing that gun might be my only means of making it out of there.

I understand and know that we don't know all of the story. On the surface though, you're in a 2v1, they're armed and you aren't, in a stand your ground state, after the immense coverage given to the Trayvon Martin case under nearly identical circumstances? Going for their gun seems astonomically impossible to end in your favor.

Let me clear though: this NEVER should have happened and those two assholes are in the wrong, but will be judged to be in the "right" unless someone can conclusively show that they attacked him first. Being a dick (looking at you, George) is not a crime and absent any proof they attacked first, I don't see how they can take a murder or even a manslaughter charge.

There HAS to be more to the story though. I hope there is and I hope they rot for a long time in a "pound them in the ass" prison.

 

[Cookie_]

I'm just curious what led to him wrestling for control of a weapon. The second that happens, someone dies and he's in a 2v1 situation. Unless you're john Wick, you don't survive that encounter.

This will play out like Zimmerman.

They followed him in their truck for two blocks yelling at him "Stop, we wanna talk to you". Before what happens in the video occured.

Given that the one guy was standing in front of the truck with the gun, it's quite possible Arbery didn't know they were armed until he started passing the truck.

Fight or flight kicks in at that point.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Those two assholes belong in a cell.

 

[757]

Here are Georgia's laws regarding citizens arrest. In particular, 4-60 stood out to me: "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

Robbery is a felony in Georgia. Theft is, typically, a misdemeanor in Georgia. Allegedly the two guys pursued Ahmaud because he matched the description of a guy who had been stealing from houses in the neighborhood.

Apparently, Greg McMichael worked in the DA's office once upon a time.

At first glance, this looks really bad for the McMichael family. With quarantine in full effect, I doubt the robbery's happened in broad daylight, meaning: 1) the description of the perp was probably something generic along the lines of "black male" and 2) why would you chase a random guy, seemingly minding his own business while jogging on a public street, with your guns drawn shouting orders at him. Like @Cookie_ said, fight or flight.

I'm not a LEO; however, working with attorneys for a few years has given me a unique perspective which some may find useful. In general, I have gleaned that making a citizens arrest is typically a bad idea. Beside it being potentially hazardous, one can unintentionally/unknowingly break a law leaving oneself open to legal repercussions.

 

[Blizzard]

Regardless of this ultimately plays out in the court, these guys were assholes.

They armed themselves, then went out and selected some random guy. Followed him and attempted to do what?...interrogate him?...with weapons in hand?

How would any of us have responded had we been on the receiving end of such idiocy? My guess is that at a minimum, most, if not all, would tell them to fuck off.

Questioning, apprehending, detaining, etc...none of that was their job or responsibility. There was no immediate threat. They just have easily could've dialed 911 and followed without interaction with the victim. So, nah, fuck these two assholes.

 

[medicchick]

Yeah let’s not call the police instead let’s go murder an innocent man because AMERICA!!! The two of them need to rot in a cell.

They did according to the article then went after him anyway.

 

[Totentanz]

With quarantine in full effect, I doubt the robbery's happened in broad daylight,

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, just going to point out that this happened February 23rd; quarantine (or stay-at-home orders, for the pedantic) didn't come into effect until about a month later. (Also worth noting that police departments hadn't curtailed or reduced activity at that point)

I'm willing to wait for all facts to come out; it's hard for me to picture what kind of background info casts the McMichaels in a good light.

 

[Kraut783]

I am curious what the subjects initially said happened....it's their story to tell then, seeing that it happened in February. Now with video of it coming out, which will probably not go with their initial story...I see GBI hammering them.

I keep waiting for better reporting coming out.

 

[757]

The timing was critical for my argument, if the thefts happened in the middle of the day, that opens up a lot of different possibilities. Thanks for the catch @Totentanz