Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[Ooh-Rah]

In short, without additional evidence, I think these guys walk on murder charges, and can probably plead out even manslaughter to a significantly lesser charge.

Based only on what I’ve read so far, that would be a travesty.

These guys saw a “black guy hauling ass” aka “jogging” when the ass-hauler happens to be white.

Instead of calling 911 and reporting that they were FOLLOWING a burglary suspect, they decided to do the “Citizens Arrest” bit.

Please, just please. They were not out on the Western Prairie, they were a police “minutes away” phone call from not murdering a man.

Citizens arrest?

Please.

 

[Marauder06]

Based only on what I’ve read so far, that would be a travesty.

These guys saw a “black guy hauling ass” aka “jogging” when the ass-hauler happens to be white.

Instead of calling 911 and reporting that they were FOLLOWING a burglary suspect, they decided to do the “Citizens Arrest” bit.

Please, just please. They were not out on the Western Prairie, they were a police “minutes away” phone call from not murdering a man.

Citizens arrest?

Please.

Fair enough. But I think that there were multiple 911 calls made, including one that may have happened immediately before the shooting.

I don't quite understand this:

These guys saw a “black guy hauling ass” aka “jogging” when the ass-hauler happens to be white.

Do you mean "not white?"

Also, it appears that one cannot use self-defense if one is the "confronter" in situation. Given the current evidence, it seems likely that the perpetrators are the confronters, so the whole self defense argument may be a whole lot less likely.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I'm good with what I wrote. I provided my reasoning. And taken in context, yes, that is something a defense counsel would attempt to execute in trial. With that said, based on the evidence that is available, several DAs whom have since recused themselves for a variety of reasons, there was grounds for arrest. I have also supported my position with the actual statutes from the state of Georgia.

If anything, this case will have huge effects on use of deadly force in a citizens arrest. In the statute quoted above, it clearly states that someone may execute a citizen's arrest. It does not state that they can use deadly force.

Even under the "stand your ground" statutes in Georgia, based on the evidence, there was only two persons that had those immediate tools. The defendants who willfully chose to give chase.

Now in evidence the 9-11 calls: 911 calls in Ahmaud Arbery case | 'He's running down the street'

As I've stated above, this amounts to Criminal Trespass. (Home is open, under construction and unoccupied)

Here's the statute for Burglary in Georgia. So a defense counsel would somehow have to get the jury to agree that the deceased committed burglary.

2014 Georgia Code Title 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
Chapter 7 - DAMAGE TO AND INTRUSION UPON PROPERTY Article 1 - BURGLARY § 16-7-1 - Burglary

(a) As used in this Code section, the term:

(1) "Dwelling" means any building, structure, or portion thereof which is designed or intended for occupancy for residential use.

(2) "Railroad car" shall also include trailers on flatcars, containers on flatcars, trailers on railroad property, or containers on railroad property.

(b) A person commits the offense of burglary in the first degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant dwelling house of another or any building, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, aircraft, or other such structure designed for use as the dwelling of another. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the first degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years. Upon the second conviction for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two nor more than 20 years. Upon the third and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 25 years.

(c) A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the second degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years. Upon the second and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the second degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than eight years.

(d) Upon a fourth and all subsequent convictions for a crime of burglary in any degree, adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence shall not be suspended, probated, deferred, or withheld.

Again, the stand your ground laws require the belief that they feared for their lives in order to use deadly force. Dude was running down the street and they chased after him.

ETA: Here is the transcript from the Vic Reynolds, Director of GBI's press conference.

I can’t answer what another agency did or didn’t see, but I can tell you that, based on our involvement in this case, considering the fact that we hit the ground running Wednesday morning and within 36 hours we had secured warrants for two individuals for felony murder, I think that speaks volumes for itself and that the probable cause was clear to our agents pretty quickly.

 

[Marauder06]

I don't think "stand your ground" applies in this case, which is why I didn't mention it earlier.

I think you and I have different interpretations of Georgia's citizen's arrest statutes, which is fine since neither of us are Georgia lawyers. However, the statues specifically imply that lethal force is authorized in the commission of a citizen's arrest, as long as it's not "more force than reasonable."

When making a citizen's arrest, a person may not use more force than is reasonable to make the arrest. Deadly force is limited to self-defense or to instances in which such force is necessary to prevent certain felonies.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I don't think "stand your ground" applies in this case, which is why I didn't mention it earlier.

I think you and I have different interpretations of Georgia's citizen's arrest statutes, which is fine since neither of us are Georgia lawyers. However, the statues specifically imply that lethal force is authorized in the commission of a citizen's arrest, as long as it's not "more force than reasonable."

Link is dead.

 

[Marauder06]

Link is dead.

Crap. Thanks for letting me know, I'll check into it.

edit: OK it should work now. In case it doesn't, here's the link again. It's from Georgia Legal Aid:

GeorgiaLegalAid.org | A guide to free and low-cost legal aid, assistance and services in Georgia

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I don't quite understand this:
These guys saw a “black guy hauling ass” aka “jogging” when the ass-hauler happens to be white

Poor writing on my part.

Should read:

These guys saw a “black guy hauling ass”. Otherwise known as “jogging” when the ass-hauler happens to be white.

Yes, I am implying that if the dude was not black he would not be dead.

 

[Marauder06]

Poor writing on my part.

Should read:

These guys saw a “black guy hauling ass”. Otherwise known as “jogging” when the ass-hauler happens to be white.

Yes, I am implying that if the dude was not black he would not be dead.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Georgia Attorney General has requested DOJ involvement to look at the investigation of the case: Georgia attorney general asks Justice Department to investigate handling of Ahmaud Arbery case

 

[Marauder06]

Here's another perspective:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=277789989923657

 

[0699]

@ThunderHorse

You aren't going to win an arguement with an administrator, so I'd recommend you let it go.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

@ThunderHorse

You aren't going to win an arguement with an administrator, so I'd recommend you let it go.

Yeah, I see what you mean. The way Mara uses his “Admin Privilege” is a bit over the top. In fact I’m shocked there have not been multiple complaints already because of the overbearing way he attempts to shut Thunder down.

[end sarcasm]

I don't think "stand your ground" applies in this case, which is why I didn't mention it earlier.

I think you and I have different interpretations of Georgia's citizen's arrest statutes, which is fine since neither of us are Georgia lawyers.

Crap. Thanks for letting me know, I'll check into it.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

Here's another perspective:

@0699 -

Would really interested in what you mean by that comment, because my perspective has been that Thunder and Mara have had a pretty professional conversation; especially since they are in disagreement.

 

[0699]

Yeah, I see what you mean. The way Mara uses his “Admin Privilege” is a bit over the top. In fact I’m shocked there have not been multiple complaints already because of the overbearing way he attempts to shut Thunder down.

[end sarcasm]








@0699 -

Would really interested in what you mean by that comment, because my perspective has been that Thunder and Mara have had a pretty professional conversation; especially since they are in disagreement.

You know exactly what I mean by it. You don't need to get all upset.

I'm just trying to help others learn what I had to learn <Mod-Delete> You won't win a disagreement with an administrator or moderator on this site, so don't engage in one.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

You know exactly what I mean by it. You don't need to get all upset.

I'm just trying to help others learn <Mod Delete> what I had to learn. You won't win a disagreement with an administrator or moderator on this site, so don't engage in one.

Look man, have your opinions. Personally I think you are way off base, but the fight is not with me and if Mara or Thunder want to chime in, that’s on them.

That said -

You are 100% out of line for bringing up the topic that I have since redacted. There is a line of Military Professionalism and OPSEC that is expected by all members here, and you knowingly violated that with your comment.

Not cool.

 

[Florida173]

Apparently additional footage of him on that property over multiple times.

 

[SpitfireV]

I wonder if he lived nearby and was just being nosey. They don't mention him seeming to have taken anything and he had opportunities to a few times. When I did security work I did some work sites and had people come from nearby to have a look.

 

[Cookie_]

Here's another perspective:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=277789989923657

I'm at work so I don't quite have time to find the video on facebook, but Shapiro had a much more informed, less ramblely take.

As an aside; I tend to not pay much attention to her, mainly because she seems to be trying to become the black version of Milo.
She ran a super liberal website openly waiting for the death of tea party members and "old conservatives" so progressives could move forward, ran a fair amount of anti-Trump stuff, and even created an "anti-bullying" website to dox people for being misogynistic. She "realized Liberal lies" once she was out of work and became the minority face for TP USA.

 

[Blizzard]

I wonder if he lived nearby and was just being nosey. They don't mention him seeming to have taken anything and he had opportunities to a few times. When I did security work I did some work sites and had people come from nearby to have a look.

Agreed about nosey neighbors. Not unusual. That's what I intended to say in my previous post but my autocorrect butchered it.

I don't know anything about that neighborhood and we'll see if there is more footage released but for now I just see a guy that was being curious. For all we know, maybe he was interested in building/buying a home or just curious about the construction in general.

(before someone else says, let's not go with "curiosity killed the cat"...too easy)

 

[Ranger Psych]

I wonder if he lived nearby and was just being nosey. They don't mention him seeming to have taken anything and he had opportunities to a few times. When I did security work I did some work sites and had people come from nearby to have a look.

He lived nearby as in "both locations would be within a manpack nuclear fallout radius" not "both locations would be within a 120mm mortar blast radius".

15ish miles away. Dude was where he wasn't supposed to be... Plot's thicker than just the book cover, or so it seems.

 

[Florida173]

I don't know anything about that neighborhood and we'll see if there is more footage released but for now I just see a guy that was being curious. For all we know, maybe he was interested in building/buying a home or just curious about the construction in general.

I'm guessing possible multiple entries to a construction site over a few months could be argued either way, but still would be likely trespassing, absent of any history of theft at the site.