Airlines, airplanes and other kerfuffles

[DA SWO]

Initial reports say an H-60 and an airliner collided over the approach path.

 

[DA SWO]

Initial reports say an H-60 and an airliner collided over the approach path.

H-60 appears to be from 12 Avn Bn.
Airliner was a CRJ-700 Region Jet, flying for American
Wichita to DC.

 

[AWP]

The ATC audio if anyone is interested. Look for the KDCA entry at the top (or near the top) of the page.

LiveATC Recordings | LiveATC.net

The controllers did an excellent job and I didn't hear any pilots complaining. You can tell listening to the tower and mishap aircraft they had no idea the helo was there.

 

[digrar]

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...ive-coverage/4dde6e1bc565dcb701eaf42c5fa40fed

 

[AWP]

Different audio or radio channel, the tower called the helo and told them about the CRJ.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

The ATC audio if anyone is interested. Look for the KDCA entry at the top (or near the top) of the page.

LiveATC Recordings | LiveATC.net

The controllers did an excellent job and I didn't hear any pilots complaining. You can tell listening to the tower and mishap aircraft they had no idea the helo was there.

Audio pre and post crash, no music or commentary.

 

[Topkick]

H-60 appears to be from 12 Avn Bn.
Airliner was a CRJ-700 Region Jet, flying for American
Wichita to DC.

Seems like the plane was on its path and the Helo pilots should've been able to maneuver to avoid the crash. The Army is likely going to take the hit on this one, and even the conservative media is questioning where the Army and Hegseth are right now. Nobody showed up for the press conference and no statement?

 

[Devildoc]

The controllers did an excellent job and I didn't hear any pilots complaining. You can tell listening to the tower and mishap aircraft they had no idea the helo was there.

I've heard but cannot verify that the helo was on Potomac approach and the plane was on DCA tower, suggesting it was an ATC error.

Seems like the plane was on its path and the Helo pilots should've been able to maneuver to avoid the crash. The Army is likely going to take the hit on this one, and even the conservative media is questioning where the Army and Hegseth are right now. Nobody showed up for the press conference and no statement?

If the helo was at fault, the army should take the hit. Well, the pilot should, but you know Big Army will be under the gun.

 

[AWP]

I thought about the different audio pieces and realized why two guys in the same tower had different input. Basically, you have multiple air traffic controllers in the tower doing different jobs on different frequencies. Approach, ground, departure, an "admin" type with their green tape, and I'd swear there was another plus the chief controller. I haven't been in an ATC tower in 10 years...

Multiple people and responsibilities on multiple frequencies, that's why the audio is different.

 

[Devildoc]

I thought about the different audio pieces and realized why two guys in the same tower had different input. Basically, you have multiple air traffic controllers in the tower doing different jobs on different frequencies. Approach, ground, departure, an "admin" type with their green tape, and I'd swear there was another plus the chief controller. I haven't been in an ATC tower in 10 years...

Multiple people and responsibilities on multiple frequencies, that's why the audio is different.

So the whole ATC thing to me is voodoo. With two different controllers on two different frequencies trying to move two chess pieces to the same square on the board be a reasonable conclusion for a collision?

 

[Topkick]

So the whole ATC thing to me is voodoo. With two different controllers on two different frequencies trying to move two chess pieces to the same square on the board be a reasonable conclusion for a collision?

It'll be interesting. Apparently these routes are used regularly without incident. One theory I've heard is the helo may have been flying at a higher altitude than required.

 

[Devildoc]

It'll be interesting. Apparently these routes are used regularly without incident. One theory I've heard is the helo may have been flying at a higher altitude than required.

Honestly there is so much info coming out right now on social media it's hard to figure out, so I am definitely pulling back from casting culpability.

I also read this: "The recording of the radio between the Blackhawk and the tower is floating around, tower asking if they have the CRJ in sight. Helo affirms and requests visual separation – collision 12 seconds later.... the copter had a visual on the wrong plane. It had the visual on one of these two. They didn't see the CRJ7 (JIA5342) until it was too late."

 

[AWP]

So the whole ATC thing to me is voodoo. With two different controllers on two different frequencies trying to move two chess pieces to the same square on the board be a reasonable conclusion for a collision?

I'd presume Bagram's tower is run differently than Reagan's tower, and I probably have the titles wrong, but the tower typically controls airspace within a 10 mile radius. An a/c is handed off from controller to controller, some are even at different physical locations, until it lands at which point "ground" takes over to manage marshaling the a/c from the time they turn off the runway until they are parked. Reverse that from the gate to lining up on the runway.

 

[AWP]

Honestly there is so much info coming out right now on social media it's hard to figure out, so I am definitely pulling back from casting culpability.

I also read this: "The recording of the radio between the Blackhawk and the tower is floating around, tower asking if they have the CRJ in sight. Helo affirms and requests visual separation – collision 12 seconds later.... the copter had a visual on the wrong plane. It had the visual on one of these two. They didn't see the CRJ7 (JIA5342) until it was too late."

I think that audio is in the video I posted. PAT25 was the helo's callsign.

 

[TLDR20]

So the whole ATC thing to me is voodoo. With two different controllers on two different frequencies trying to move two chess pieces to the same square on the board be a reasonable conclusion for a collision?

Yeah. The tower normally only controls aircraft in the immediate area, sometimes not even until the aircraft has the runway in sight. Normally an approach controller will control until that point. That is busy airspace.

 

[Blizzard]

Reportedly official ATC radar track.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1884827088437264387

You can see CRJ descending from 600' and appears to be a stabilized approach. The helo is steady at 300', except for two sweeps where it momentarily drops to 200' before returning to 300', right before the collision. You can also see the collision alert (CA) warning flashing on the screen.

So, the helo is underneath the CRJ to it's right right while the CRJ is in a slight left turn for the runway. Very difficult for the CRJ crew to see the helo.

Tragic.

BTW, I absolutely despise this new trend where everything looks "fishy" or is a conspiracy of some kind. Take that nonsense elsewhere you fucking weirdos.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

BTW, I absolutely despise this new trend where everything looks "fishy" or is a conspiracy of some kind. Take that nonsense elsewhere you fucking weirdos.

This.

 

[AWP]

So, the helo is underneath the CRJ to it's right right while the CRJ is in a slight left turn for the runway. Very difficult for the CRJ crew to see the helo.

Eerily similar to the Texas Raiders B-17 and P-63 crash in Texas a year or so ago.

 

[Muppet]

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

In true Trump fashion he was at the press conference talking about DEI hiring in the ATC world possibly being to blame for the accident. The plane's still steaming in the river and he's arguing the pitfalls of past DEI practices.

If he's not correct in some way he's really making an ass of himself on this.