Anglico V.S. USAF CCT

[Z-man]

Just wanted to get more insight on which unit does what. when I look online everyone seems to have mixed answers on who has the best capabilities(tacp/jtac/fac/salt etc.) and what munitions are controlled. Also what roles does each play within the MAGTF,liason or while attached to SOF...also to stir the pot on which is better

 

[dknob]

An Anglico is an Army FSO.

Dude, the amount of training a CCT receives over Anglico and FSO is disgusting.

C'mon now.

 

[Karoshi]

An Anglico is an Army FSO.

Are you referring to level of training involved between ANGLICO and FSO?

 

[Z-man]

An Anglico is an Army FSO.

Dude, the amount of training a CCT receives over Anglico and FSO is disgusting.

C'mon now.

I understand CCT goes through more formal schooling overall but my question refers to capabilities and overall utilization within battlespace. Simply put which gets used most often.

 

[Z-man]

I thought ANGLICO was a Marine Air Naval Gunfire Liason Company, or are you referring to level of training involved between ANGLICO and FSO?

im refering to Marine Corps Anglico because of the versitility to control land air and sea. where as Army FO's can control arty or air. (this by what ive read or heard from other marines by no means do I know what army FO's actually do or control so elaberation on their field would help this discussion. )

 

[Karoshi]

I am mildly familiar with ANGLICO having served on the staff alongside a few of their GySgts at the FECC for RC-SW, the question was for dknob originally. I had to re-read the post he made a couple times and was just trying to verify that he was comparing the FSO and ANGLICO in terms of standard training received vs that of a CCT.

 

[AWP]

Wow....

CCT's are trained to be air traffic controllers in addition to their other tasks such as setting up LZ's, DZ's, Pathfinder work, etc. Most are also JTAC qualified, I know of one who deployed and was not a JTAC. MFF is part of their pipeline and I think dive takes place either as part of their pipeline or "upgrade training" everyone has to complete...regardless, they are dive and MFF qualified. Not many ANGLICO teams are doing any of that stuff, nor are Army FSO's. The ATC portion is a year or so....those guys are qualified like FAA controllers to run airfields, but unlike an FAA air traffic controller, CCT's are certified to survey and set up airfields, emplacing navigational aids and runway markers for example. I dont' know of a single ANGLICO or Army element that can do the same thing.

Then there's the JTAC qualification which is seperate from what an Army FO does. While FO's can become JTAC's and I'm sure ANGLICO has JTAC's...most of those units aren't JTAC's unlike deployed CCT's (like I said, there are few guys who aren't yet a JTAC for whatever reasons).

You guys are arguing over apples and watermelons. Everyone thinks CCT's drop bombs...they do, but their careerfield is much more than that. It doesn't make them better or more important, they bring a different skillset to the fight on top of their other missions.

 

[0699]

ANGLICO has the training and is authorized to control fixed and rotary wing CAS, artillery, mortars, and naval gunfire. Basically, if it's indirect fire, ANGLICO can control it. Their entry skills (especially for the AD companies) are non-existent right now, as HQMC has not authorized them to be on jump status since they were stood back up. Some ANGLICO Marines go to jump school, SERE, RSLC, etc, but those schools are the exception not the rule. Except for JTAC/FAC courses, their training is at the company, usually the ANGLICO Basic Course (ABC). The smallest ANGLICO team is (1) JTAC or FAC, (2) RTOs, and (2) FOs. Sometimes smaller elements are sent out, but it's VERY rare. Many of the RTOs and FOs are also JFOs.

IME, the advantage of ANGLICO over other elements (only talking about the ability to control fires, not entry skills, airfield control, etc) is it's a complete indirect fire package. You don't need seperate elements; one to control your artillery fire, one for your CAS, another for Predators feeds, etc. They come with all their own equipment, so they aren't reliant on the supported unit for vehicles, radios, etc.

Edit: I probably sound like a dick, but it's ANGLICO (all caps), not Anglico. It's an abbbreviation for Air Naval Gunfire Liasion Company.

 

[DA SWO]

Wow....

CCT's are trained to be air traffic controllers in addition to their other tasks such as setting up LZ's, DZ's, Pathfinder work, etc. Most are also JTAC qualified, I know of one who deployed and was not a JTAC. MFF is part of their pipeline and I think dive takes place either as part of their pipeline or "upgrade training" everyone has to complete...regardless, they are dive and MFF qualified. Not many ANGLICO teams are doing any of that stuff, nor are Army FSO's. The ATC portion is a year or so....those guys are qualified like FAA controllers to run airfields, but unlike an FAA air traffic controller, CCT's are certified to survey and set up airfields, emplacing navigational aids and runway markers for example. I dont' know of a single ANGLICO or Army element that can do the same thing.

Then there's the JTAC qualification which is seperate from what an Army FO does. While FO's can become JTAC's and I'm sure ANGLICO has JTAC's...most of those units aren't JTAC's unlike deployed CCT's (like I said, there are few guys who aren't yet a JTAC for whatever reasons).

You guys are arguing over apples and watermelons. Everyone thinks CCT's drop bombs...they do, but their careerfield is much more than that. It doesn't make them better or more important, they bring a different skillset to the fight on top of their other missions.

Dive school is a requirement, and part of the pipeline.

There was a Special Tactics Team on Rhino DZ when the Rangers jumped in (2001)(This is open source now); I know some of the people who established the DZ.

Combat Controllers are JTAC Qualified, and pull duty with ODA's, SEALs and MARSOC elements.

I don't know if they do Artillery, but will ask a friend if they do that.

Like ANGLICO, they can come with their own vehicles, or ride in someone else's vehicle. They have their own radios, weapons, gear etc. Their mission skill set is pretty wide (one of my former NCO's just finished swift water rescue training).

They would probably be considered enablers for most missions.

 

[AWP]

Dive school is a requirement, and part of the pipeline.

There was a Special Tactics Team on Rhino DZ when the Rangers jumped in (2001)(This is open source now); I know some of the people who established the DZ.

Combat Controllers are JTAC Qualified, and pull duty with ODA's, SEALs and MARSOC elements.

I don't know if they do Artillery, but will ask a friend if they do that.

Like ANGLICO, they can come with their own vehicles, or ride in someone else's vehicle. They have their own radios, weapons, gear etc. Their mission skill set is pretty wide (one of my former NCO's just finished swift water rescue training).

They would probably be considered enablers for most missions.

I thought at one time they could complete the pipeline, but needed dive to be a 5 Level. That's probably changed, but I vaguely recall one of our retired PJ's mentioning it.

We had at least one CCT at BAF in '05 who was not a JTAC. Again, I'm sure things have changed, but he was either a SrA or a SSgt and not a current JTAC for whatever reason.

 

[DA SWO]

I thought at one time they could complete the pipeline, but needed dive to be a 5 Level. That's probably changed, but I vaguely recall one of our retired PJ's mentioning it.

We had at least one CCT at BAF in '05 who was not a JTAC. Again, I'm sure things have changed, but he was either a SrA or a SSgt and not a current JTAC for whatever reason.

JTAC is not 100%, but they were doing the full range of missions, so we needed non-JTAC qual'd guys. You are correct on the 5-level, but you can't re-enlist or get promoted to SSgt without a 5-level; so it becomes a pipeline requirement.

IIRC, one of the reason for sending non-dive guys was a shortage of Controllers, so a decision was made to send pipeline guys to Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Teufel]

CCT is a SOF combat controller that has JTAC capabilites in addition to a lot of other things. As a SOF element that supports SOF units, they have a lot of additional screening and special insert training that ANGLICO does not receive. ANGLICO is a good unit but while the two units share some like capabilities, namely the ability to call for CAS or artillery, they both have very different missions and responsiblities. Another example: a Special Forces soldier and an infantrymen share some like capabilities, like the ability to do raids, but they do that same operation at different levels of precision, different means of insertion and are capable of assuming different levels of risk to accomplish the mission.

 

[mark c]

I spent some time around ANGLICO while in the Corps during a few schools I attended and everyone from that unit had USMC/Navy gold jump wings. Didn't see SCUBA badges. This was 30 years ago and I know ANGLICO has been sat down and stood back up a few times since then. I don't know what their training is now. CCT is a part of USAF Special operations so my uneducated guess is that their training might be a bit broader than ANGLICO sine CCT attaches to most SOF units in the US military. Semper Fi

 

[Brill]

I don't know if they do Artillery, but will ask a friend if they do that.

The CCT with us established the hot wall but the ODA called for and adjusted the arty on several occasions. Very effective to say the least.