Army Agrees To M4 Sand Test Shoot-Off

[rangerpsych]

Stupid question, but why not buy new SAW's? Seems to be a good weapon when they aren't 25 years old and shot out...

Incidentally, a more reliable rifle that requires less cleaning and uses our current stock of 5.56mm ammunition, sounds good to me.

well, the barrels are replaced when they gauge bad, the parts are replaced when they break, no reason to replace operational parts.

Using that chain of thought, some of the M2HB .50 machine guns should be replaced, since they DID see duty back in WWII... yet they're winning wars a half inch at a time, even now

 

[DoctorDoom]

Yeah, that's what didn't make sense to me.

Does this mean the SAW is a poor weapon? Or just another victim of bad Army Acquisition policy? I'm still confused as to why it's being phased out. Weren't gunners complaining that the SAWs are so loose they are falling apart?

Regardless, seems like the testing of the newer M-16/4 derivatives or updates is a good call.

Sorry about the hijack.

 

[rangerpsych]

I honestly don't know what you are talking about bro, the M4/M16 is completely different than the M249 other than the fact that it shoots 5.56

Everything can be replaced on a M4 just like on a M249, M240, etc. Stuff breaks, fix it.

If the weapon operator doesn't bring problems to light, it doesn't get fixed.

I never had any problems with any SAW falling apart, even with the old stock my gunner had in my fire team.

I have never heard of the SAW being phased out, this is news to me, but if it is true then it damn well better be lighter, more accurate, and easier to clean. Otherwise, don't dick with what works.

 

[HeloMedic1171]

The idea, and I'm trying to find a source, is a Light and a Heavy weapon... similar parts, but one and auto one semi, one to replace the rifleman's weapon and one to replace the gunner's weapon that use more of the same parts for ease of use, maintenance, and more cost-effectiveness. I'll post something for a source if I can find somting more reliable than wikipedia.

 

[rangerpsych]

that's not really possible, because the amount of rounds a gunner in a fire team goes through is plain silly, the entire reciever would need to be hardened up and that just won't work because that's the big thing you want to retain commonality with!

 

[DoctorDoom]

I honestly don't know what you are talking about bro, the M4/M16 is completely different than the M249 other than the fact that it shoots 5.56

Everything can be replaced on a M4 just like on a M249, M240, etc. Stuff breaks, fix it.

If the weapon operator doesn't bring problems to light, it doesn't get fixed.

I never had any problems with any SAW falling apart, even with the old stock my gunner had in my fire team.

I have never heard of the SAW being phased out, this is news to me, but if it is true then it damn well better be lighter, more accurate, and easier to clean. Otherwise, don't dick with what works.

I'm probably confusing information I read... and sorry this was kind of a hijack. but there has been reports that since the USMC is looking for a new LMG, the Army has been thinking about replacing the SAW. I understand this is why the Mk46 has come on line, due to SAW's falling apart after being around since the 1980's, and of reports of jams in dusty environments. Maybe I am confusing the Marine Corps' complaints with Army agitation about the SAW and potential replacements?

To get back on topic, I guess there's so much info out there I can't make heads or tails of it... not that it matters I guess, I'm the rearest of REMF's... but it seems like the M-16's and M-4's have had a lot of charges of dust induced failures/jams and fouling/field maintainence difficulty levied against them, and yet many on the ground say it works just fine.

From an outsider perspective, it seems like the ammo and the weapon are two issues. And I frankly think a new caliber round is chaff, while a better weapon with less cleaning requirements is the wheat of the debate.

Thanks for answering my question, man.

 

[HeloMedic1171]

that's not really possible, because the amount of rounds a gunner in a fire team goes through is plain silly, the entire reciever would need to be hardened up and that just won't work because that's the big thing you want to retain commonality with!

true. I think it's silly they want to go to a whole new weapon instead of fixing the broke one.... just upgrade the existing colt smal arms family, why build the SCAR? but then, I'm in a different realm than a lot of you guys, i don't know the real issue. I just want an M4 that doesn't jam every other round in the sand. I hope this test proved that I'm not alone.