You put it so nicely, I always said VBJ, or verbal Blow Job. So eloquent you are.
Army Troop Drawdown
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Although I'm a Cavalry Officer, I'm the Squadron S1 until I go to CCC pretty much. The new NCOER was supposed to go live on 1 JUN but was pushed to 1 JAN.
You can say it penalizes people in SOF, but it doesn't. It penalizes everyone, because I could have three amazing section sergeants as a PL, but I'm only able to rate 1 with a top block and the other two won't get that. Also, unless they give you some credits, there's no way a PL will be able to give his PSG a top block.
Current NCOER system is over-inflated, at my SQDN, my CSM here and at our previous SQDN seemed to make it his mission to deflate the system. Which, just screwed over a lot of good NCOs. At least here he stopped screwing with NCOERs where the SCO didn't have to sign.
Verbiage, for both Officers and NCOs, having just overseen board certification for April's unreleased CPT's board and this year's OSB for CPTs. HRC has said pretty blatantly to me, if you can't give them a top block, but they deserved a top block, you write comments the same as you would for a top block that received a top block.
Promotion boards need to be well versed on what's going on, because I can see that a lot of folks won't be making SFC again.
You can say it penalizes people in SOF, but it doesn't. It penalizes everyone, because I could have three amazing section sergeants as a PL, but I'm only able to rate 1 with a top block and the other two won't get that. Also, unless they give you some credits, there's no way a PL will be able to give his PSG a top block.
Current NCOER system is over-inflated, at my SQDN, my CSM here and at our previous SQDN seemed to make it his mission to deflate the system. Which, just screwed over a lot of good NCOs. At least here he stopped screwing with NCOERs where the SCO didn't have to sign.
Verbiage, for both Officers and NCOs, having just overseen board certification for April's unreleased CPT's board and this year's OSB for CPTs. HRC has said pretty blatantly to me, if you can't give them a top block, but they deserved a top block, you write comments the same as you would for a top block that received a top block.
Promotion boards need to be well versed on what's going on, because I can see that a lot of folks won't be making SFC again.
I agree wholeheartedly that it punishes everyone. There are far too many things that are completely outside the rated individual's control for this to be an effective means of talent management. It's even worse in elite/selective units.
Then why bother with a new system if there's a pseudo-work around being passed along by HRC? You can't make up this stuff, the Army continually manages to out Army Strong the Army.
What a crock.
A top block write-up is not the same as a top-block. It's the next best thing but when going in front of a board with a tough selection rate you're in a tough spot.
I totally understand, the STPA program in the 90's was similar in that a bad system was replaced with a bad system which was then gamed to the point where nothing changed. All of the Army's efforts are more or less wasted. People are going to game the system or find loopholes, but as an outsider it appears as though nothing was solved and it only made things worse.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I think it deflates the NCOER a lot. Whereas for the OER raters now have a profile, and before you could always get a top block. The Senior Rate piece was the same.
My understanding is the Sr Rater was limited in the number of top blocks they could give.
My wife has a few that were not top blocked, but had top block language, didn't stop her from getting promoted.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
The senior rater always have a limited number of top blocks but I don't think there was an automated system like EES currently is. I don't think it will really affect a person that bad. From the Senior rater, because that was the same as previous. But the rater now has a profile as well.
SpongeBob*24
Verified Military
I agree, the NCOER is broke...but they tried to fix this wrong!
The NCOER system has been broken for a long time, and will continue to be broken.
This has been truly evident throughout the time of the All-Volunteer Army, most of those who join are outstanding and want to be there for the long haul, this is exacerbated in the SOF Arena, where you are screening for the best of the best and dropping them into a canned system designed for the lowest common denominator of the largest possible force.
Example: just the quantitative sample size of an Infantry Battalion to a Special Forces Battalion, then toss in the difference of Rank distribution... logically and statistically there are going to be less stellar performers in the sample of an Infantry battalion, based solely on training and selection criteria ... SOF units are already screened to standards far above the 'meets expectations' standards of the US Army, but are held to the standard t and z curves of the larger population. True, it can be argued that the rating system smoothes those differences by comparing SOF to SOF and regular forces to regular forces, but.... notsomuch in top-end review for SNCO slots across the board.
Maybe the introduction of an annual, anonymous 360* rating conducted at each command could help fix the system, but I rather doubt it, because in the current culture, the cream does not always rise to the top, and vindictive repercussions would be the product.
A few thoughts, but no solutions...
This has been truly evident throughout the time of the All-Volunteer Army, most of those who join are outstanding and want to be there for the long haul, this is exacerbated in the SOF Arena, where you are screening for the best of the best and dropping them into a canned system designed for the lowest common denominator of the largest possible force.
Example: just the quantitative sample size of an Infantry Battalion to a Special Forces Battalion, then toss in the difference of Rank distribution... logically and statistically there are going to be less stellar performers in the sample of an Infantry battalion, based solely on training and selection criteria ... SOF units are already screened to standards far above the 'meets expectations' standards of the US Army, but are held to the standard t and z curves of the larger population. True, it can be argued that the rating system smoothes those differences by comparing SOF to SOF and regular forces to regular forces, but.... notsomuch in top-end review for SNCO slots across the board.
Maybe the introduction of an annual, anonymous 360* rating conducted at each command could help fix the system, but I rather doubt it, because in the current culture, the cream does not always rise to the top, and vindictive repercussions would be the product.
A few thoughts, but no solutions...
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I always wondered what MSAF 360 was for.
AfroNinja267
Unverified
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2015
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- 11
So for someone considering joining the Army, this basically means that if you fall into a good unit, odds are you'll look worse on paper as a result?
Follow up question, if the above is true, would you be better off attempting to achieve rank outside of those good units before joining them?
I don't want to come off as someone who's concerned about being promoted but it would definitely help to know how the new promotion system works before being at its mercy
Follow up question, if the above is true, would you be better off attempting to achieve rank outside of those good units before joining them?
I don't want to come off as someone who's concerned about being promoted but it would definitely help to know how the new promotion system works before being at its mercy
@AfroNinja267 you're worrying about some stuff that is waaaaaaay down the line for you. Exceptional performance - knowing your job, being physically/mentally fit, becoming a good leader - are going to set you apart with no worries all the way through E-6. Most of the problems being discussed with the NCOER are the difficulties in separating field grade NCOs - E-7 and above. You're not yet an E-1. I think you'll have a pretty good idea how far from E-6 you are when you meet your drill sergeants.
By the time it matters it may not matter. You are years out and anything could happen. As for certain units, by the time this topic becomes an issue you'll already be in those units are assessing inito those units.
In other words, don't worry about it and if you're still worrying the other branches are hiring.
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