Article: How To Fix Special Forces Training

[Molinaro]

Please do not join the military. It's painfully obvious you would not be a good fit.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Here's the bottom line, from my perspective: if only 30% of all screened candidates make it, IMO, then at least one of a few things is true: either the screening criteria or its implementation is bunk, or selection training has something wrong with it, or any combination of these.

I'm wondering what experience and or training expertise you possess, that allows you form any perspective, of any quantifying depth, with anything that has to do with the Military, any branch there of, or any specific unit and or that units selection and training habit's or practice's? Furthermore how can you make an 'educational' opinion on something you have very little to no knowledge about, much less direct experience, either personal or study format?

I read your profile, it appears you work as a security guard/body guard, you have stated you have a college education, but I have not been able to see where your direct military knowledge and or expertise is derived from?

Lastly, you should keep in mind, that SOF troops, are the top 1% of the military, which is drawn from roughly 1% of our population (arguably our top 1% of the populace). These guys are fucking elite, smart and very experienced, they know what works and what doesn't, and if something isn't working right, they will figure it out and fix it, without the need for opinions or perspective's from the likes of you.

That all said, let this thread be a learning experience for you, not to become bitter or offended from. Ask questions, withhold opinion's unless its squarely in your area of expertise, and keep an open mind. You are in the company of a diverse and incredible amount of knowledge and experience, that would be hard to find anywhere else. Make good use of it...

 

[Red Flag 1]

Mod hat on: @ Et Tamen Fortis, You have had a lot to say since joining SS.

Then you will be chaptered in very short order, with a BCD.



Please give a link to medically supported, peer reviewed evidence of this statement.

While quoted by @x SF med, I am really adding on to what he has picked up on. That said, this is aimed at @ Et Tamen Fortis, and it is just two wee little items.
1.) When you get into the SF Pipeline, you will have words said to you by TAC(s). I really want to be there when you set them straight:die::dead:.
2.) Regarding the Beta Alanine, I have a link that you prolly did not have the time to pull up for us; you do seem so very busy:JISSN | Full text | International society of sports nutrition position stand: Beta-Alanine. This article does report on Neurological findings: Beta-Alanine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects | Examine.com. This from Web MD: BETA-ALANINE: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD. Since this is seen as a diatery suppliment, you won't see any FDA inputs.

There are similar reports from sites you need to be a subscriber to enter. If you have Non-Wikipedia link that shows research and results Re: PTSD, please let have a look at the links. Anything that has been studied and reported on for preventing PTSD will be gold.

 

[Ranger Psych]

I'll take my ptsd if dosing up means I'd feel like I have prickly heat for months on end.

 

[x SF med]

@Red Flag 1 ... interesting that none of the articles from trusted medical sources say anything at all about Beta-alanine 'inoculating against PTSD'... unless it was hidden somewhere in the text.

 

[Ranger Psych]

@Red Flag 1 ... interesting that none of the articles from trusted medical sources say anything at all about Beta-alanine 'inoculating against PTSD'... unless it was hidden somewhere in the text.

Only one I found, hence my statement about cat piss, a noise tube, and a maze

 

[DocIllinois]

@Red Flag 1 ... interesting that none of the articles from trusted medical sources say anything at all about Beta-alanine 'inoculating against PTSD'... unless it was hidden somewhere in the text.

One study with scientific rigor is not genuine support for application of a dietary supplement to prevent a medical condition.

The trials, licensing application, VRBPAC findings, and possible Phase IV studies necessary to develop β-alanine into a vaccine will take the same amount of time as for any drug or other biologic.

ETF, this thread will have gone stone cold necro before that happens to support your hypothesis. So keep an eye on it for us.

 

[policemedic]

@Et Tamen Fortis

This has been a highly educational, edifying thread...I've learned a lot (about you).

Please don't inflict yourself on my Army.

 

[policemedic]

One study with scientific rigor is not genuine support for application of a dietary supplement to prevent a medical condition.

The trials, licensing application, VRBPAC findings, and possible Phase IV studies necessary to develop β-alanine into a vaccine will take the same amount of time as for any drug or other biologic.

ETF, this thread will have gone stone cold necro before that happens to support your hypothesis. So keep an eye on it for us.

Well, that level of understanding is what separates those of us with a depth of comprehension of how medical research is performed and the resulting papers are to be read from those without that baseline knowledge. Those who don't know what they don't know are too easily swayed by big words, graphs, and Greek letters in fancy papers.

As an aside, I'm fortunate to have daily access to some of the brightest medical professionals in the world. I ran this by them out of pure intellectual curiosity...doubting my own infallibility, as it were. They laughed--hard--and told me to quit drinking on duty.

 

[AWP]

I feel like this thread is on the Brink of greatness.

 

[SkrewzLoose]

So. Much. Hate.

 

[Kheenbish]

Let me take a wild guess and say you are also for giving separate, lower, standards to woman entering special operation fields? It's only fair, since they have different body types, and that way we will have a greater success of woman entering the SOF career fields.

I mean look at how a certain recent Ranger School class turned out...

 

[Totentanz]

I feel like this thread is on the Brink of greatness.

 

[Devildoc]

Gentlemen, the OP argument is full of holes, which we all see....he uses appeal to authority/anonymous authority, appeal to consequences of belief, appeal to probability, burden of proof.

If logic and reason is not enough, I submit this quote from Col. Jessup in A Few Good Men:

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

 

[Totentanz]

Et Tamen Fortis, it's very clear that despite your attempts to comment on the matter, you don't have a firm grasp of even the most basic conceptual differences between a SOF selection course and some Full-Metal-Jacket inspired fantasy of military training. To quote a certain Trollish moderator: "Put down the e-tool when the fighting position is chest deep, any further and you are working on a grave."

Then you will be chaptered in very short order, with a BCD.

@Et Tamen Fortis

This has been a highly educational, edifying thread...I've learned a lot (about you).

Please don't inflict yourself on my Army.

Quoting these for truth. Should you join, your service will be short, painful, and unremarkable.

 

[Et Tamen Fortis]

All,

I apologize to the degree that I actually have been presumptuous or misguided in my opinions, and I appreciate the honest feedback.

As far as studies go for the beta alanine thing, there are some abstracts and partial articles on Google Scholar:

β-Alanine supplemented diets enhance behavioral resilience to stress exposure in an animal model of PTSD - Springer

β-Alanine supplementation and military performance - Springer

Hope that's useful.

 

[x SF med]

All,

I apologize to the degree that I actually have been presumptuous or misguided in my opinions, and I appreciate the honest feedback.

As far as studies go for the beta alanine thing, there are some abstracts and partial articles on Google Scholar:

β-Alanine supplemented diets enhance behavioral resilience to stress exposure in an animal model of PTSD - Springer

β-Alanine supplementation and military performance - Springer

Hope that's useful.

Both of those articles dwell on the 'enhanced performance' in the range of 1-5 minutes (60-300 seconds), or the reduction of PTSD-like sympoms in rats... and neither of them is peer reviewed. Please re-read Devildoc's post above... The testing phase from rats to human trials is decades... and the correlation numbers are good for a slight decrease in the incidence of the PTSD-like sympoms in rats. It ain't a magic bullet.

ETA - Maybe you should read this: Why do we do this? Items to consider. it could enlighten you a little more on the mindset of Special Operations people.

 

[TLDR20]

All,

I apologize to the degree that I actually have been presumptuous or misguided in my opinions, and I appreciate the honest feedback.

As far as studies go for the beta alanine thing, there are some abstracts and partial articles on Google Scholar:

β-Alanine supplemented diets enhance behavioral resilience to stress exposure in an animal model of PTSD - Springer

β-Alanine supplementation and military performance - Springer

Hope that's useful.

I agreed with your initial post, but you have dug into an indefensible position.

SOF training can be better, yes. PT can and should be better, again yes. But there is a reason for the suckfest. That reason would be evident if you had spent 1 day in doing small unit tactics. All those cool videos you see, of dudes running and shooting in the forest, those guys had to move miles and miles through those woods carrying 100-150lbs of shit. Then they had to be ready to co duct a running gunfight over variable terrain against and enemy that is lightly equipped. You can't just be in good shape, you have to be harder than woodpecker lips.

 

[Et Tamen Fortis]

Both of those articles dwell on the 'enhanced performance' in the range of 1-5 minutes (60-300 seconds), or the reduction of PTSD-like sympoms in rats... and neither of them is peer reviewed. Please re-read Devildoc's post above... The testing phase from rats to human trials is decades... and the correlation numbers are good for a slight decrease in the incidence of the PTSD-like sympoms in rats. It ain't a magic bullet.

ETA - Maybe you should read this: Why do we do this? Items to consider. it could enlighten you a little more on the mindset of Special Operations people.

Thanks. I took a look at your sticky.

BTW, both of those articles are in fact peer-reviewed. See the link below, the journal Amino Acids is subject to rigorous peer review. Also, I think you're misinterpreting the significance of the time; just because BA's effects are most relevant, it would seem, for "short burst" types of activities, doesn't mean that this effect is somehow lost in terms of relatively long-term protection from the cumulative stress that repeated bouts of such activities will cause. Finally, questions of medical testing and approval aren't germane to the issue of whether or not it works. It is classified as a dietary supplement, after all, and works by increasing levels of a buffering substrate that already exists within the body's cells, viz. carnosine.

http://www.springerplus.com/series/AMAC

I know everyone is already laughing at me, but who cares at this point. I don't think anyone's reasons against the beta alanine thing have stacked up to much more than "hey, let's tell the FNG he's an idiot, because he overstepped his bounds." But you or anyone else is welcome to offer me reasons as to why I'm wrong.

Here's another one. While not specifically related to PTSD, it shows compellingly, IMO, that beta alanine supplementation reduces stress-related performance deficits in a very significant way, i.e., in reducing deficits in stress-related marksmanship.

Beta-Alanine supplementation makes soldiers more deadly in combat

Also, @ Ranger Psych: I would respectfully request that you decide whether or not you've written me off, or not -- the fact that you wrote that you had done this, and proceeded to write a message directed at me subsequently, shows me that you're obviously conflicted about something. On that note, while I can frankly concede at this point that I have overstepped my bounds, for you to immediately impugn my ability to comprehend "science" is an instance of you doing just the same. As a working IP professional at a law firm where we cash checks for $250K on a routine basis, I can say with the utmost confidence that my general grasp of "science" takes a gigantic, steaming, smelly shit on yours . . . "bro."

Et Tamen Fortis, it's very clear that despite your attempts to comment on the matter, you don't have a firm grasp of even the most basic conceptual differences between a SOF selection course and some Full-Metal-Jacket inspired fantasy of military training. To quote a certain Trollish moderator: "Put down the e-tool when the fighting position is chest deep, any further and you are working on a grave."





Quoting these for truth. Should you join, your service will be short, painful, and unremarkable.

How constructive of you. I can see your moderator status is well-earned. Now, if this is the quality of "mentorship" I can expect on this forum, you are most welcome to complain and terminate my membership. Here's a quick suggestion: when you know someone is truly weaker than you, rubbing it in their face and writing them off is NOT the noble thing to do.

 

[Devildoc]

I know everyone is already laughing at me, but who cares at this point. I don't think anyone's reasons against the beta alanine thing have stacked up to much more than "hey, let's tell the FNG he's an idiot, because he overstepped his bounds." But you or anyone else is welcome to offer me reasons as to why I'm wrong.

We have offered reasons; not the least is you are making assumptions about something of which you know nothing (A&S/selection) and tried to apply what may be at best a reach of science that may impact a few individuals. The problem with that as I see it is that without supplementation the military has been pretty darned successful in getting the product they want without having to go to that well.

I glom onto that aspect as I see it frequently in my line of business, the medical field, when people come to the ED with a complaint just knowing what the diagnosis is (because that's what WebMD said) and know what they need to get better (because that's what Dr. Google said).

This is a cliquish group and it is challenging to make inroads; however, if you come with humility and contrition desiring to learn the community, they are an invaluable resource--a veritable Who's Who of the Global War on Terror.