Assad is over?

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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The Russians and Iranians aren't gonna let him fall easily, as shitty as it is he's playing the mass murder of his own people card, Russia and Iran are playing the game and looking to protect their own interests, which means keeping him in power. Doesn't mean I like it in any way nor is him killing lots and lots of people a good thing, but I can see why Iran and Russia take the stance they do.
 

Brill

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Sounds like a great chance to get some Virgina farm boys in on the action to poke fingers in Putin's and Ahmaddinajad's eyes.

There's nothing like an intel chess game played with other people's pawns!!!
 

Karoshi

Bringing Space to the Warfighter.
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It is sad that I see those images and can almost recognize what imagery birds shot them...

Also good to see that Department of State is following NGA guidance in regards to NextView licensing for released items.
 

mike_cos

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According to Saban Center to Brooking there are 6 options to solve Assad's Crisis:

1. Removing the regime via diplomacy;
2. Coercing the regime via sanctions and diplomatic isolation;
3. Arming the Syrian opposition to overthrow the regime;
4. Engaging in a Libya-like air campaign to help an opposition army gain victory;
5. Invading Syria with U.S.-led forces and toppling the regime directly; and
6. Participating in a multilateral, NATO-led effort to oust Asad and rebuild Syria.

Faites vos jeux, messieurs...Les jeux sont faits, rien ne va plus
 

Marauder06

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How sure are we that removing Assad from power is actually going to make things better? What's going to take over after him? Is it going to be more liberal and West-leaning, or is it going to be Hezbollah Lite, but now they have the resources of an entire country?
 

Brill

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How sure are we that removing Assad from power is actually going to make things better? What's going to take over after him? Is it going to be more liberal and West-leaning, or is it going to be Hezbollah Lite, but now they have the resources of an entire country?

Well, Libya and Egypt went so well. "What, me worry?" :-o
 

mike_cos

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How sure are we that removing Assad from power is actually going to make things better? What's going to take over after him? Is it going to be more liberal and West-leaning, or is it going to be Hezbollah Lite, but now they have the resources of an entire country?
Mara.. I understand your position... but we can not justify the atrocities of dictators for fear of Islamic regimes close to AQ... or not?
 

pardus

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How sure are we that removing Assad from power is actually going to make things better? What's going to take over after him? Is it going to be more liberal and West-leaning, or is it going to be Hezbollah Lite, but now they have the resources of an entire country?

The "uprising" in Egypt (to mention but one) was a bad thing IMO.

Dictators get a bad rap that is often unwarrented.
 

mike_cos

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The "uprising" in Egypt (to mention but one) was a bad thing IMO.

the only uprising I like :-)

marley-uprising.jpg
 

Marauder06

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The "uprising" in Egypt (to mention but one) was a bad thing IMO.

Dictators get a bad rap that is often unwarrented.

I agree.

The whole "let's intervene everywhere... now!" theme reminds me of a memorable scene in one of my favorite TV series, "The Wire:"

"There we go, giving a fuck when it ain't our turn to give a fuck."

It's not that I'm unsympathetic to innocent people getting killed. It's not that I think Assad's a good guy. It's just that there are so many other things that I think we need to be focused on, and if we're going to risk our manpower, money, and prestige on yet another military effort, it needs to be worth the cost. We're broke. Our military is stretched thin. We're involved militarily in so many places right now that we don't have to be, that I'm beginning to wonder if it's all not smoke and mirrors to distract us from some very real problems we're facing at home.

I'm personally not convinced that regime change in Syria improves our strategic position in the Middle East or the world one iota. As a country, Syria despises us and what we stand for. Our values as a nation are incompatible with theirs. I don't think there s a West-leaning (or even West-neutral) force waiting in the wings to take over after Assad, so why are we in a rush to show him the door? I worry Syria will become another religiously-dominated, West-hating government. (Right now they're only a secular, West-hating government, and traditionally we've found a way to work with people like that. Not so much the zealots.) And I don't think anything we do will change that. Which reminds me of another quote:

To state what should be obvious, but somehow is not: Pakistan…is not our friend. They are not our allies; they are not our partners; they are not on our team; they are not on our side. And no matter how much aid we give them, no matter what military capabilities we provide them, and no matter what promises, assurances or pledges we make to them, these facts are not going to change. Pakistan is on its own side, period. -US Congressman Gary Ackerman (D/NY), November 2011.


Now substitute "Syria" in there for "Pakistan." Same crap, different country.

There are lots of places we can be directing our resources that would better suit our longterm interests. I do not believe Syria is one of them. If removing Assad from power is in our long-term, strategic national interests, then let's make it happen. Otherwise... well, keeping with the theme from "The Wire," I think it's someone else's turn to give a fuck.
 

Brill

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I agree.

The whole "let's intervene everywhere... now!" theme reminds me of a memorable scene in one of my favorite TV series, "The Wire:"

It's not that I'm unsympathetic to innocent people getting killed. It's not that I think Assad's a good guy. It's just that there are so many other things that I think we need to be focused on, and if we're going to risk our manpower, money, and prestige on yet another military effort, it needs to be worth the cost. We're broke. Our military is stretched thin. We're involved militarily in so many places right now that we don't have to be, that I'm beginning to wonder if it's all not smoke and mirrors to distract us from some very real problems we're facing at home.

I'm personally not convinced that regime change in Syria improves our strategic position in the Middle East or the world one iota. As a country, Syria despises us and what we stand for. Our values as a nation are incompatible with theirs. I don't think there s a West-leaning (or even West-neutral) force waiting in the wings to take over after Assad, so why are we in a rush to show him the door? I worry Syria will become another religiously-dominated, West-hating government. (Right now they're only a secular, West-hating government, and traditionally we've found a way to work with people like that. Not so much the zealots.) And I don't think anything we do will change that. Which reminds me of another quote:

Now substitute "Syria" in there for "Pakistan." Same crap, different country.

There are lots of places we can be directing our resources that would better suit our longterm interests. I do not believe Syria is one of them. If removing Assad from power is in our long-term, strategic national interests, then let's make it happen. Otherwise... well, keeping with the theme from "The Wire," I think it's someone else's turn to give a fuck.

My Latin is pretty rusty but I'm pretty sure that De Oppresso Liber means "I give a fuck". ;)

JFK said it best in '61:

...Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. 4 This much we pledge—and more. 5 To those old allies whose cultural and spiritual origins we share, we pledge the loyalty of faithful friends. United, there is little we cannot do in a host of cooperative ventures. Divided, there is little we can do—for we dare not meet a powerful challenge at odds and split asunder. 6 To those new States whom we welcome to the ranks of the free, we pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have passed away merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny. We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom—and to remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside. 7 To those peoples in the huts and villages across the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required—not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich...
 

Brill

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Looks like someone is combat advising:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17425062

Syrian rebels 'in Damascus firefight'
18 March 2012 Last updated at 22:36 ET

A firefight is reported to have erupted in Syria's capital, Damascus, between the rebel Free Syria Army and the forces of President Bashar al-Assad.
Witnesses say the sound of machine-guns and rocket-propelled grenades can be heard from the district of al-Mezze.
The neighbourhood, in the centre of Damascus, is home to several security facilities and is one of the most heavily guarded parts of the capital.
In January the Free Syria Army briefly seized several Damascus suburbs.
Al-Mezze has been the scene of large anti-government protests.
"There is fighting near Hamada supermarket and the sound of explosions there and elsewhere in the neighbourhood," a resident told Reuters news agency.
"Security police have blocked several side streets and the street lighting has been cut off."
 

CDG

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My Latin is pretty rusty but I'm pretty sure that De Oppresso Liber means "I give a fuck". ;)

JFK said it best in '61:

...Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. 4 This much we pledge—and more. 5 To those old allies whose cultural and spiritual origins we share, we pledge the loyalty of faithful friends. United, there is little we cannot do in a host of cooperative ventures. Divided, there is little we can do—for we dare not meet a powerful challenge at odds and split asunder. 6 To those new States whom we welcome to the ranks of the free, we pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have passed away merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny. We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom—and to remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside. 7 To those peoples in the huts and villages across the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required—not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich...

That's all well and good, if the people we free are going to do something with it. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. We "freed" them, but is anything really better? They will go back to the same tribal feuds and ethnic wars they have been engaged in since the beginning of time. It's not up to us to try and help a people that are only going to turn around and shit all over what our military bought for them in blood. Yeah, everybody wants help. Nobody wants to do anything to help themselves though. Far easier to let the US do all the heavy lifting and then sit back and criticize after the smoke has settled and you all of a sudden can criticize because you have the American Soldier to hide behind.
 
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