Wow could I write a book here, but my posts and replies are already too long.
When I went to my first Scout/Sniper School it was disorganized, and though the Instructors were good men, it was a 10week thrash session. Camp Pendleton as most of you probably know is mountainous desert. Because Land Nav Courses were so easy, the Instructors idea to make it “tougher” was to make the student cards so that each point they were to find were as far away from each other as possible., a mininum Of 15-20 Miles (both day and night) of running with the last one 26-7 Miles.
They had little to NO knowledge of ballistics, and various other important subject area’s. I was not given honor man because the guy who was somehow tied me in everything except PT where I smoked the entire class (I was the oldest and class leader) , but he was an Instructors best friend... Everyone else was happy and sooooo glad to get the hell out of there on Grad day but me...
Anyway, I’m not a bitch snitch so I’ll leave there. Attrition was so bad that I’m very surprised that the Corps didn’t shut the school down. But... Snipers are peculiar Warriors. There will always be attrition in a School that has to get into each student’s head. If a student tried his best, had no pre-Sniper training, l would annotate in his drop letter to send him back ASAP. I put in the POI that two chances were possible, each case taken individually for consideration.
The first thing a Chief Instructor has to do is look at his Cadre!!! I had to change their attitude from competing to see who can drop the most of their primary students, to one of Im going to give it all I can without lowering standards to get my guys through.
I had to next get the reputation of not only the Sniper, but the Plts’ up too! Once a guy made it through SS head get a big head, Ana the Plts were good in the field but rough on Liberty. They didn’t understand that that showed a lack of maturity and the BC couldn’t trust them... therefore they weren’t being deployed. I stresssed in SS School that I hat been through that drinking and fighting phase when I was younger too, but Snipers Operate for S-2/BC directly etc... and they won’t risk sending Turds out to do one of the toughest jobs there is.
I wrote ( every time I use I, it’s to be taken as my staff and me)! A Program of Instruction (POI) for the basic course that was the first ever signed by HQMC. I gave it to all sister services that wanted one. Why re-invent the wheel. All they would have to do is adapt it to their duties in their service and they were off and running. I ended up writing one for the Advanced Course, the Urban Course, the Spec-Ops Sniper Courses as well.
Anyway, after you square away your own house then your ready to teach....and I mean TEACH, not just test! My first School was a thrash and perform course. If I had not been in the Rangers I don’t think I’d have made it. Carlos Hathcock was and Chuck Mawhinney is best of friends. They looked at it and observed training and would just shake their heads...Carlos said “ I don’t know if I could have done all of this shit”... then he’d laugh. I tried to send each Instructor to curriculum building, Military Instruction, and then at least one school of there choice. Most wanted ajump School , but I had Rangers, Pathfinders, L.R.R.P’s, etc... Each had to be a qualified FO/FAC.
When they came back if we need3d to modify the school I would take care of it. The Sniper Students get all of that in the Course but it kept my Instructors current and better at teaching. The student had to pass as always, no lowering of standards, but now they had been trained properly.
We used Peer Evals like Ranger School because it’s of great importance that nobody slips through the cracks in personality, motivation, Team player, etc... when we weren’t around. I remember one time I had the first five Snipers from SEAL TM Six come though the course at the same time. One 1stClass and 4 Chiefs. One is in “Rogue Warrior”, and he came to my office/ trailer and asked to speak. We did and he said SEAL’s don’t do Evals. Their mentality at schools is it us ( students) against you(staff). “ If you ain’t cheat’n you ain’t trying”
So I told him to grab all his guys, pack their shit, and do the “Seabag” drag back to me. I’d have transpo to the airport,or if they drove as soon as I get their DROP letters for their Command they could split.... they did the Evals...lol... when we did the second and last Peer Evals he understood why we did them and was ready to write. They ended up being some of the best students, and they all passed.
I’ve been reading about training changes at the school. Some I do not like or understand...but times change and I’m sure when Carlos gave me the keys, he thought simiar thoughts. I’m so glad he was able to see the changes bring the Marine Sniper back to the top of th heap.
In 1994 HQMC allowed us to go to an International Sniper Competition in Dundee Scotland. We stayed and trained at Berry Budden Camp, an old WW II B-17 Base. It was cool as hell. We stayed in Quanset huts etc... The comp. was set up for 12 Days and marksmanship was a huge part of the comp as well as field craft. There were Tm’s there from almost every Country in Europe, all of the UK, and some from Eastern Europe. It was run by Mark Spicer ( one of my best friends and someone I took under my wing even after the comp. and had him come to the States to go to the Advanced School etc... And the British SAS). We had observers from a lot of places as well.
Well the comp. started on Monday and we won it on Weds. We had accumulated so many points in marksmanship and fieldcraft, that even if another Tm maxed points the rest of the comp. they would still be in second place. The Brits made us Instructors, evaluators, and part of their Cadre’. if you’ve ever worked with the Brits, you’ll know that’s a pretty big change in attitude.... We had a blast with those guys but they had a million questions and my guys were eating it up... Never had to buy a Pint after that! We basically upgraded Sniping world wide(allies), and made some friends for life...brothers...
Of course we get back to the States, get a pat on the back and sent back to our units. Snipers are hardly ever recognized. I’ve been inserted into enemy turf, humped 10 clicks to the target area , built a hide, reported over the horizon every detail about the target which was an IHR Missionary snatch, lived ther for three days, soaked....had a 17 1/2 “ redtail Boa crawl in my hide with me... When I turne on my red filtered flashlight to see what it was I thought it was a pit Bull!
We kept a suppressed .22 on our packs between us for dogs, so i grabbed it a shot it 5 times in the face before it backed out, rolled around and died. Well my partner slept through it... ( if you’ve been in the Bush for 3 Days and one of you has to bee awake at all times, you understand why he didn’t wake up). My hide was across the River from the target, about 200yards. So I went outside, pulled the head of the snake in as far as I could , then kicked my partner and started whispering in a panick, “Snake,snake”, my partner forgot about his weapons, his name, what day it was, and that we were close to some really mean dudes, and jumped straight up, knocking the roof and camo off the hide, and proceeded to Modock his ass out of there until I stopped him.
The indigenous people were friendly so I gave them the snake to chow down on except some for us. They brought me back the skin and it’s a The HQ of a bunch I used to ride Harley’s and bob them etc...(most former military. I’ll post a good pic of it when I get Maddog ( old Phrog Pilot) to stretch it out and send a pic. We rebuilt the hide and the Mission was a success being a combined action USMC/ARMY\SEAL Hit.
I’ll sign off for now by getting back on track... The first three days of SS School is strictly Marksmanship and LandNav. I used 12 Win Hester Model 70’s in .22 with Leopold Goldring Mk 4 scopes on them at the 25 yd line. Class size started at 24 if everyone met the pre-Req’s and PFT score. Each Instructor had 1-3 Teams relative. During that time the students were shown THE FUNDAMENTAL ‘S and proper positions. How a scope the scope works etc... These were match rifles from the shooting Tm so if they were’nt key holing we found out why because ther was no effects of weather, recoil. etc... by the time we went to the big range with the M40’s they were ready. Their Sniper observer dialogue, positions, etc... drop rates on the range went from 50-60% to everybody qualifying.
PB
Mod Edit for paragraph spacing.
When I went to my first Scout/Sniper School it was disorganized, and though the Instructors were good men, it was a 10week thrash session. Camp Pendleton as most of you probably know is mountainous desert. Because Land Nav Courses were so easy, the Instructors idea to make it “tougher” was to make the student cards so that each point they were to find were as far away from each other as possible., a mininum Of 15-20 Miles (both day and night) of running with the last one 26-7 Miles.
They had little to NO knowledge of ballistics, and various other important subject area’s. I was not given honor man because the guy who was somehow tied me in everything except PT where I smoked the entire class (I was the oldest and class leader) , but he was an Instructors best friend... Everyone else was happy and sooooo glad to get the hell out of there on Grad day but me...
Anyway, I’m not a bitch snitch so I’ll leave there. Attrition was so bad that I’m very surprised that the Corps didn’t shut the school down. But... Snipers are peculiar Warriors. There will always be attrition in a School that has to get into each student’s head. If a student tried his best, had no pre-Sniper training, l would annotate in his drop letter to send him back ASAP. I put in the POI that two chances were possible, each case taken individually for consideration.
The first thing a Chief Instructor has to do is look at his Cadre!!! I had to change their attitude from competing to see who can drop the most of their primary students, to one of Im going to give it all I can without lowering standards to get my guys through.
I had to next get the reputation of not only the Sniper, but the Plts’ up too! Once a guy made it through SS head get a big head, Ana the Plts were good in the field but rough on Liberty. They didn’t understand that that showed a lack of maturity and the BC couldn’t trust them... therefore they weren’t being deployed. I stresssed in SS School that I hat been through that drinking and fighting phase when I was younger too, but Snipers Operate for S-2/BC directly etc... and they won’t risk sending Turds out to do one of the toughest jobs there is.
I wrote ( every time I use I, it’s to be taken as my staff and me)! A Program of Instruction (POI) for the basic course that was the first ever signed by HQMC. I gave it to all sister services that wanted one. Why re-invent the wheel. All they would have to do is adapt it to their duties in their service and they were off and running. I ended up writing one for the Advanced Course, the Urban Course, the Spec-Ops Sniper Courses as well.
Anyway, after you square away your own house then your ready to teach....and I mean TEACH, not just test! My first School was a thrash and perform course. If I had not been in the Rangers I don’t think I’d have made it. Carlos Hathcock was and Chuck Mawhinney is best of friends. They looked at it and observed training and would just shake their heads...Carlos said “ I don’t know if I could have done all of this shit”... then he’d laugh. I tried to send each Instructor to curriculum building, Military Instruction, and then at least one school of there choice. Most wanted ajump School , but I had Rangers, Pathfinders, L.R.R.P’s, etc... Each had to be a qualified FO/FAC.
When they came back if we need3d to modify the school I would take care of it. The Sniper Students get all of that in the Course but it kept my Instructors current and better at teaching. The student had to pass as always, no lowering of standards, but now they had been trained properly.
We used Peer Evals like Ranger School because it’s of great importance that nobody slips through the cracks in personality, motivation, Team player, etc... when we weren’t around. I remember one time I had the first five Snipers from SEAL TM Six come though the course at the same time. One 1stClass and 4 Chiefs. One is in “Rogue Warrior”, and he came to my office/ trailer and asked to speak. We did and he said SEAL’s don’t do Evals. Their mentality at schools is it us ( students) against you(staff). “ If you ain’t cheat’n you ain’t trying”
So I told him to grab all his guys, pack their shit, and do the “Seabag” drag back to me. I’d have transpo to the airport,or if they drove as soon as I get their DROP letters for their Command they could split.... they did the Evals...lol... when we did the second and last Peer Evals he understood why we did them and was ready to write. They ended up being some of the best students, and they all passed.
I’ve been reading about training changes at the school. Some I do not like or understand...but times change and I’m sure when Carlos gave me the keys, he thought simiar thoughts. I’m so glad he was able to see the changes bring the Marine Sniper back to the top of th heap.
In 1994 HQMC allowed us to go to an International Sniper Competition in Dundee Scotland. We stayed and trained at Berry Budden Camp, an old WW II B-17 Base. It was cool as hell. We stayed in Quanset huts etc... The comp. was set up for 12 Days and marksmanship was a huge part of the comp as well as field craft. There were Tm’s there from almost every Country in Europe, all of the UK, and some from Eastern Europe. It was run by Mark Spicer ( one of my best friends and someone I took under my wing even after the comp. and had him come to the States to go to the Advanced School etc... And the British SAS). We had observers from a lot of places as well.
Well the comp. started on Monday and we won it on Weds. We had accumulated so many points in marksmanship and fieldcraft, that even if another Tm maxed points the rest of the comp. they would still be in second place. The Brits made us Instructors, evaluators, and part of their Cadre’. if you’ve ever worked with the Brits, you’ll know that’s a pretty big change in attitude.... We had a blast with those guys but they had a million questions and my guys were eating it up... Never had to buy a Pint after that! We basically upgraded Sniping world wide(allies), and made some friends for life...brothers...
Of course we get back to the States, get a pat on the back and sent back to our units. Snipers are hardly ever recognized. I’ve been inserted into enemy turf, humped 10 clicks to the target area , built a hide, reported over the horizon every detail about the target which was an IHR Missionary snatch, lived ther for three days, soaked....had a 17 1/2 “ redtail Boa crawl in my hide with me... When I turne on my red filtered flashlight to see what it was I thought it was a pit Bull!
We kept a suppressed .22 on our packs between us for dogs, so i grabbed it a shot it 5 times in the face before it backed out, rolled around and died. Well my partner slept through it... ( if you’ve been in the Bush for 3 Days and one of you has to bee awake at all times, you understand why he didn’t wake up). My hide was across the River from the target, about 200yards. So I went outside, pulled the head of the snake in as far as I could , then kicked my partner and started whispering in a panick, “Snake,snake”, my partner forgot about his weapons, his name, what day it was, and that we were close to some really mean dudes, and jumped straight up, knocking the roof and camo off the hide, and proceeded to Modock his ass out of there until I stopped him.
The indigenous people were friendly so I gave them the snake to chow down on except some for us. They brought me back the skin and it’s a The HQ of a bunch I used to ride Harley’s and bob them etc...(most former military. I’ll post a good pic of it when I get Maddog ( old Phrog Pilot) to stretch it out and send a pic. We rebuilt the hide and the Mission was a success being a combined action USMC/ARMY\SEAL Hit.
I’ll sign off for now by getting back on track... The first three days of SS School is strictly Marksmanship and LandNav. I used 12 Win Hester Model 70’s in .22 with Leopold Goldring Mk 4 scopes on them at the 25 yd line. Class size started at 24 if everyone met the pre-Req’s and PFT score. Each Instructor had 1-3 Teams relative. During that time the students were shown THE FUNDAMENTAL ‘S and proper positions. How a scope the scope works etc... These were match rifles from the shooting Tm so if they were’nt key holing we found out why because ther was no effects of weather, recoil. etc... by the time we went to the big range with the M40’s they were ready. Their Sniper observer dialogue, positions, etc... drop rates on the range went from 50-60% to everybody qualifying.
PB
Mod Edit for paragraph spacing.
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