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I agree with the Kiwi.
I'm all for tradition but some of the stories just sound like cunts being cunts, with the power of rank to back it up.
Bull Ensign, Order of the Shellback, and other hazing highjinks....
- Thread starter Devildoc
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I agree with the Kiwi.
I'm all for tradition but some of the stories just sound like cunts being cunts, with the power of rank to back it up.
We were discussing this a bit on watch tonight and there are a few folks who are opting out of the "Crossing the Line" ceremony. Makes no difference to me and I can actually understand their desire to not want to participate. A good buddy of mine says, "what's wrong with these people who don't want to participate in this!?"
Me: Maybe they don't want to be a part of a stupid ritual that holds no real meaning any longer and will do nothing to further their career in the Navy or afterwards. Nothing that goes on in these ceremonies actually tests anyone's 'sea worthiness'. It's just stupid for some and fun for others.
SILENCE
Him: So you're not participating??
Me: Of course I am, but I still think it's stupid. And it will give me a reason to punch someone in the dick if they get heavy handed with what's required for our rites of passage.
I love it when I get under my good friends' skin!
Me: Maybe they don't want to be a part of a stupid ritual that holds no real meaning any longer and will do nothing to further their career in the Navy or afterwards. Nothing that goes on in these ceremonies actually tests anyone's 'sea worthiness'. It's just stupid for some and fun for others.
SILENCE
Him: So you're not participating??
Me: Of course I am, but I still think it's stupid. And it will give me a reason to punch someone in the dick if they get heavy handed with what's required for our rites of passage.
I love it when I get under my good friends' skin!
Yeah, I remember not appreciating it all that much. I was trying my best to stay in the infantry despite complications from wounds and getting hammered by shipmates and fellow NCOs was not my idea of facilitating the goal. But it was tradition so I sucked it up. And in the end it made no difference.
@SkrewzLoose, the Shellback thing isn't really that bad. It's stupid, yes, but it's one of those things you do because it makes you part of the club. Chiefs can opt out of Chief's initiation, but it doesn't reflect favorably. Same with this. You might roll your eyes, but the Navy is the most tradition bound of all the services and Order of the Shellback is one of those traditions. I was glad I did it when it was over, despite the irritation I felt for part of it.
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if it worth saying, it will be quoted.
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Devildoc
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Is there hazing? I am sure there is, as evidenced by the video, but I wonder if videos like that and the semi-fictionalized "code red" incident in A Few Good Men overstate the problem? Not condoning it, at all, but curious just how bad it is.
Blood pinning? Been there (well, know it has happened). Stupid shit? Yup. Tacking the crow? Yup. But for-real, physically damaging barbarous behavior? I never saw it. (again, not saying it doesn't happen)
Blood pinning? Been there (well, know it has happened). Stupid shit? Yup. Tacking the crow? Yup. But for-real, physically damaging barbarous behavior? I never saw it. (again, not saying it doesn't happen)
I am sure there are "fringe" elements in all the branches and units that carry things too far. The line between doing something to welcome someone into a brotherhood is a far leap from doing some of the things which are dangerous to one's health. It's those things I disagree with and believe need to be stopped.
When you start hitting someone to where they have physical injuries....fuck your traditions with a pizza cutter. At best you're a moron following the herd. You're talking clownshoe behavior with none of the oversight provided by SERE school or other courses. Initiations should be a bonding or rite of passage, not how hard can we hit this guy to demonstrate his 'toughness'?" Idiots one and all.
RE: jumping. We used our own helmets and that individual's section/ detachment decorated them. Mine had wraps of engineer tape with things written on it in red marker(Cherry, look out below, I'm gonna die, etc.). It was topped by a cardboard shark fin (a "sky shark") and we only did it to guys on their first jump out of school. New guys who were experienced jumpers didn't play. We also restricted wearing the maroon beret to guys who had completed jump school until some dickbag complained he was being unfairly treated because it is organization headwear. I'm still bitter about that because it may be technically correct, it is a "thing", something you EARN. We also made them do pushups anytime they entered or exited the head shed. 10 at a time, not unlike what they would see at jump school. Alas, that went away with the beret issue.
Little things matter and connect us with our past. They are a point of pride and can exist without physical damage.
RE: jumping. We used our own helmets and that individual's section/ detachment decorated them. Mine had wraps of engineer tape with things written on it in red marker(Cherry, look out below, I'm gonna die, etc.). It was topped by a cardboard shark fin (a "sky shark") and we only did it to guys on their first jump out of school. New guys who were experienced jumpers didn't play. We also restricted wearing the maroon beret to guys who had completed jump school until some dickbag complained he was being unfairly treated because it is organization headwear. I'm still bitter about that because it may be technically correct, it is a "thing", something you EARN. We also made them do pushups anytime they entered or exited the head shed. 10 at a time, not unlike what they would see at jump school. Alas, that went away with the beret issue.
Little things matter and connect us with our past. They are a point of pride and can exist without physical damage.
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Ugh. That guy must have been a barrel of laughs to be around - "It's not fair!" Former Minnesota Gopher's head football coach still uses the phrase, "Fair is where you buy a pig in the fall". Love that!
We never found out who did it and I was out a few months later. I remember as an LT being forced to uphold a policy I disagreed with (I was on the fence if one of my guys did it), but told my Det. we had an order to follow even if we didn't like it; I reminded my NCO's they had standards within their sections. For some reason my non-qualed soldiers only wore the beret to formations...
Unless I'm wrong, that's what I recall. @ke4gde may remember something different.
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IIRC that all came about after the transition by Gen. Shithead to the now infamous black beret. Prior to that it was never too much of an issue, at least from my lowly vantage point. I never recalled any Joes bitching about beret or no beret. I always attributed most issues with uniforms to the pogues at STARC- (base command).
However, funny thing, I recall seeing a leg at jump school come from an airborne unit, and wore his organizational headgear (beret) to the formation to report in for jump school. A pack of blackhats immediately descended on him and began his physical routine in earnest. Although I wore my unit patch on my sleeve, I was never singled out more than any other random joe. The beret was held sacred for a time.
Brill
SOF Support
You guys wore hats?
The beret thing got outta hand.
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The pure lunacy of the whole event, was that it was recorded; including the big grin by the mallet swinger. With the current administration's view of the military, this could get some major traction. Wonder if this will make it as a political topic during this election year?
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Funny you posted this, I was just looking the incident up - it was really bugging me. Turns out it is from 2012
Soldier who hit colleague with wooden mallet is disciplined
A Fort Bragg spokesperson told NBC News that this event was “not in keeping with military service."
The soldier will be fined, receive an administrative punishment and will receive a letter of reprimand in his permanent file. He must also write an apology letter and will be relieved of his responsibilities.
This is a career-ending punishment.
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Great research Ooh-Rah!
The mallett swinging idiot got what he earned for that little stunt. I hope the young solider had no lasting effects or complications. That kind of blow, can result in a chest injury that breaks all the ribs away from the sternum, or a Flail Chest injury. What at idiotic thing to do,..............but that's just me
Needs to lose a stripe as part of the career ending punishment.
I wonder how the mallet tradition started with that unit?
I literally required stitches above my left eye following my Shellback initiation. I never seen it as hazing but all in good fun. I was a rebel Wog and had swiped a Shillelagh from a Shellback while crawling by him. As I turned to make my escape he yelled "Rebel Wog" and the guy pouring day old refried beans and rice on everyone from a metal pitcher turned and the pitcher whacked me right in the face. Every station after that someone would ask; "hey... is that real blood?" :wall:
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