Can you really come out of Army basic an E4?
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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SPC isn't an NCO.
Believable, 6 year contract with College Credits. AF has a couple of ways to come out of Basic as an E-3.
Florida173
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Army specialist isn't an NCO
@goon175 was a recruiter, he can probably answer your question more authoritatively than I. That said:
1) specialist (E4) is not an NCO in the Army, corporal (E4) is. AFAIK, no one comes out of basic as a corporal.
2) yes you can leave basic as an E4, if you have a high education level and/or highly selective skills. It was pretty common in my company in Korea.
1) specialist (E4) is not an NCO in the Army, corporal (E4) is. AFAIK, no one comes out of basic as a corporal.
2) yes you can leave basic as an E4, if you have a high education level and/or highly selective skills. It was pretty common in my company in Korea.
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Yes. There were several when I went through (I was one myself). Some are 09S (Officer Candidates - four-year degree is both a requirement for that MOS and automatically confers E-4 rank), others are simply people who had a bachelor's or higher and chose to enlist.
Corporal or Specialist. Corporal's baby NCO and in the Army, more pissed off than a Corps one to boot IMHO since they have all the responsibility with no additional pay inferred to compensate compared to a linear progression like ya'll have.
Yup, as others stated an E-4 going into Basic either has a college degree or enlisted under ACASP.
No crazier than officers who commission as Majors or Lieutenant Colonels IMO.
@Ooh-Rah is surprised because there is literally no way you can do this in the Marine Corps. We also don't have a specialist rank so an E-4 is an NCO for us. I had a 1st Sgt who was a 75th Ranger Regiment Ranger who got out of the Army as a SFC (I won't say why on the public forum, PM me for details if you want) and joined the Marine Corps. He was given the rank of E-2/PFC for his experience and was promoted to E-3/LCpl for being honor man at bootcamp. He was a rock star, obviously, and was promoted to Gunnery Sergeant around his 7 year mark and was the bane of my existence as my company GySgt at the Naval Academy while I was there. As a midshipmen...ummm I required some mentorship and dynamic leadership. Next slide please. Several years later he was my company 1st Sergeant in the infantry in Iraq and is now a Sergeant Major somewhere.
The entry level E-4 is nothing new to the Army. They've were doing this back when I first enlisted.
RetPara
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I can straight into the Army as a Specialist..... with 17 months TIG.... but I was still on my inactive Marine Reserve and had been a Marine Sergeant for 17 months.....
I have never seen someone enlist as an E-4 and be fastracked to E-5 unless they did one of the traditional fasttrack methods such as Ranger school. If anything, they took far longer to ever get E-5. That said, I do agree that enlisting as an E-4 is a bad deal for the Army and the individual. Just for different reasons.
Reed
Florida173
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A lot of people seem to think corporal was common on the infantry side, but in my experience the infantry will ultimately just promote you if there is confidence in your ability. No reason for additional paperwork when not needed.
Actually, it was pretty common. MTOE of 6 E-5's, 4 E-6'es, and 2-3 gun team leaders depending on if it's a regular or Ranger platoon.... gun team leaders all got corporal basically instantly.
pardus
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I didn't say anything about them being fast-tracked, and yes I have seen that happen, three times off the top of my head, one even bumped me out of an E5 slot, graduated AIT while I was deployed, 3 months later an E5.
The reason I said it makes a foundation for a shitty NCO, is not for speed from 4 to 5, but the fact that they skipped the lower ranks and the time it takes to move through them, which is vital time they need to become proficient at their jobs and as a Soldier. Soldier's generally need time to be whipped into shape, particularly now when that is not being done at basic and AIT.
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I agree with the first part of your statement; I never saw someone fast-tracked out of E-4. The same TIS requirement applies...
Would you mind elaborating on your "bad deal" comment? I don't have a particular opinion on the subject, just curious what "different reasons" you had in mind.
pardus
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Hmm, that makes me wonder how those others got promoted so fast...
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