Not sure my feelings on this.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-armed-forces-alcohol-sexual-misconduct-1.6839933
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-armed-forces-alcohol-sexual-misconduct-1.6839933
Canadian Armed Forces considering limiting access to alcohol to curb sexual misconduct.
- Thread starter RackMaster
- Start date
What's next, are they going to ration the maple syrup? Also, I'm sure that limiting alcohol will make it disappear. I'm also told that there is no sex in the barracks.
R.Caerbannog
Verified Military
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
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Per the bolded, that sounds like potential war crime territory if used against Canuckistani's forces.
@RackMaster Bro, if this Lt-Gen was put in place by the Trudeau Chicom cuck apparatus, then this ain't for making y'all more "professional". It sounds like they're trying to break moral under the guise of social mindfulness.
“Stop two hundred years of privilege and tradition? I'd rather have them three sheets to the wind on occasion than have a mutiny on my hands.” — Master and Commander
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Topkick
Verified Military
Punish the individual, not the masses.
The article mentioned that something like 90% of disciplinary incidents that the CAN Navy had I underway were alcohol related. At West Point, IIRC nearly all sex assault cases at one point had alcohol as part of the equation.
Topkick
Verified Military
Curious how many of those involved two people consuming alcohol and *consensually engaging in flirtatious behavior until the next morning?
*Not saying this is always the case
Perhaps more than a lot of people are willing to admit. At the same time though, it's kind of moot since alcohol as a contributing factor to bad decision-making remains.
Topkick
Verified Military
Agreed, but if two people tango and one or both has regret, its just bad choices and not assault. That matters.
ETA: Sir, I don't disagree with some preventative measures (I.e. 2 beer rule) You have to have some rules in place because Joe is gonna Joe.
I was around for the tailhook scandal. Some of our best troops made really bad decisions, some sexual assault, because basic common sense rules were not in place or enforced. If I recall, the punishment was rather light considering...
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Devildoc
Verified Military
Alcohol and bad decisions are as old as the military. I think, and I am not joking, I read that George Washington bitched about his men being boozed up and acting stupid while wintering at Valley Forge.
Topkick
Verified Military
INDIVDUALS should be punished for THEIR bad decisions.
Topkick
Verified Military
"She said the data so far shows that most incidents of military sexual misconduct happen off-base when those involved are not taking part in military operations."
I understand alcohol limits on-base...but if I'm legally off base at a privately owned facility there can't be much the military can do about it. Except place bars and restaurants off-limits. That would piss off the troops and the local economy would suffer.
Apparently senior Canadian officers were some of the worst offenders. Simple solution: ban officers.
I understand alcohol limits on-base...but if I'm legally off base at a privately owned facility there can't be much the military can do about it. Except place bars and restaurants off-limits. That would piss off the troops and the local economy would suffer.
Apparently senior Canadian officers were some of the worst offenders. Simple solution: ban officers.
My read on the article was that they're advocating for de-emphasizing alcohol consumption at military events held off post. So for example a dining-in or mil ball
Yes! Ban all the officers! oh wait what
Devildoc
Verified Military
The list of off-limits establishments in Jacksonville (and Fayetteville) is growing by the day it seems, and not just bars and clubs (though they are the highest number).
Devildoc
Verified Military
If we tried that here the Marine Corps and Navy would cease to exist there would be such a mass mutiny....
De-emphasizing isn't a ban. I think it's entirely possible for leaders to de-glamorize and de-emphasize binge drinking while still allowing responsible consumption. Personal example can go a long way in that regard.
Topkick
Verified Military
Throughout my career, binge drinking was common with Officer's and NCOs. I'm guilty of it, I drank a lot. As I look back on my career, I made mistakes and I realize it was not a good example to set. But, it was our culture. I am glad that attitude is changing (I hope), but I don't support bans. I fully support setting a good example and holding subordinates to a high standard.
I agree. I don't drink much anymore--hardly at all--(it's a weight loss thing, not a morality or health thing) but I recognize it is very much part of our culture. So when I have cadets over to the house, or if I'm at a social event with cadets where it is appropriate to do so, I have a beer or a shot or a mixed drink to try to model responsible behavior. From time to time I'll conspicuously not drink as well, to help people understand that's OK too.
A lot of us here also do what we can to discourage gratuitous and irresponsible consumption. When cadets brag to me about how much they drank last night or how drunk they got over the weekend, for example, I make sure they understand how un-impressed I am about it. I might also publicly make fun of them about it. I'm also not afraid to tell people when I think they've had enough or that they may need to get help. I like to see people have a good time, I don't like to see them get drunk. Especially not at a .mil event.
In no way am I trying to portray myself as some kind of saint. I did a LOT of drinking when I was in college, and when I was a junior officer. Fortunately I never got hemmed up over anything, although "but for the grace of God... ." But right now there is far less tolerance for alcohol-fueled bad behavior, and with modern social media, everything lasts forever. The consequences are high, both on a personal and a strategic level.
At the same time, I'm totally fine with outright bans in certain circumstances. Like, on duty? Yeah, no alcohol (I think we're pretty much there already there culturally). Downrange in a war zone? Save that for R&R or the unit Christmas party.
Topkick
Verified Military
As the father of a current cadet, I appreciate what you are doing!
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