CCT's Future

CBL27

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I spoke with a JAG from the US Air Force that was assigned to JSOC until recently. He was uncertain, but he seemed to be worried that I was putting to much emphasis on my interest in thee CAS portion of a Combat Controller's role in current conflicts. He said there is a decent possibility that it may not be as integral a part of their activities in the near future. He mentioned something about the Army getting tired of using Air Force CCTs that were not necessarily polite to some of the Army officers in charge of the units the CCTs were attached to when those officers tried to give them orders regarding CAS that seemed heinous to the Controllers. The JAG mentioned something about "rumors"(his way of hinting that they might be more than rumors) of Army SOF units trying to get more of their own men trained in JTAC roles so they wouldn't need CCTs as much. I was simply wondering if anyone that actually knows what they are talking about could shed some light on the situation. Is this unlikely, or is there some truth to it? The JAG was assigned to JSOC, but he's a JAG(not SOF). If this is a dumb, or already answered, question, I apologize.
 

CDG

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The Army has long been pushing to create their own JTACs so that they don't have to rely on the USAF for attachments of TACPs and CCTs. As far as anything else related to alleged performance reviews, I'm not going to entertain that discussion. Earn one of the berets and you can make up your own mind.
 

CBL27

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The Army has long been pushing to create their own JTACs so that they don't have to rely on the USAF for attachments of TACPs and CCTs. As far as anything else related to alleged performance reviews, I'm not going to entertain that discussion. Earn one of the berets and you can make up your own mind.
I apologize if my remarks regarding the Army unit leaders' opinions on CCT's performance were taken as me thinking less of Controllers. I respect what they do, and I'm sure anything they did in regards to their specialties was fully justifiable. I was simply wondering what opinions, or known facts, I would get on this issue from people who have "been there, done that". Thank you for the response.
 

CBL27

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Shouldn't matter.
Your intro said you were interested in Pararescue, concentrate on that pipeline and let others fight the political wars.
Sir, my main interest has been pararescue and still is. My grandparents(spent 25+ years in USAF) requested that I look at everything I would possibly consider as an interest before I made up my mind and dug my feet in on PJs(the logic was that having a doubt in your mind on whether you really want to be doing that particular job can be ten times as detrimental in making it through a pipeline as not preparing physically). I haven't signed any papers and I still have about four years before I consider signing a contract, so I thought it might be intelligent to do so. I asked the JSOC JAG about it because he is a friend of my grandmother and was willing to share some of his experiences on working with both Js and Controllers during his career(he was assigned to AFSOC before JSOC). I am looking into everything I can in SOF at the moment before I consider signing anything. CCT was a career I had considered before, so I'm retracing my steps and trying to make absolutely certain that I'm certain on PJs. I don't want to waste the Air Force, AFSOC, or my time by attempting to make it through a training for a career/life that I don't want to live day in and day out. Thank you for your service and your response.
 

amlove21

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Sir, my main interest has been pararescue and still is. My grandparents(spent 25+ years in USAF) requested that I look at everything I would possibly consider as an interest before I made up my mind and dug my feet in on PJs(the logic was that having a doubt in your mind on whether you really want to be doing that particular job can be ten times as detrimental in making it through a pipeline as not preparing physically). I haven't signed any papers and I still have about four years before I consider signing a contract, so I thought it might be intelligent to do so. I asked the JSOC JAG about it because he is a friend of my grandmother and was willing to share some of his experiences on working with both Js and Controllers during his career(he was assigned to AFSOC before JSOC). I am looking into everything I can in SOF at the moment before I consider signing anything. CCT was a career I had considered before, so I'm retracing my steps and trying to make absolutely certain that I'm certain on PJs. I don't want to waste the Air Force, AFSOC, or my time by attempting to make it through a training for a career/life that I don't want to live day in and day out. Thank you for your service and your response.
I see your intent here; thanks for explaining your position in a respectful way.

The battlespace is always changing. Where JTAC was the focus of the CCT career field for a long time, remember that their primary mission set is austere airfield seizure and terminal area control. Those mission sets aren't going anywhere. Parallels can be made with SF focusing on UW and not so much DA, or Pararescue moving away from TACEVAC/CASEVAC and more on their Technical Rescue Specialties.

Outside of the constant evolution of the specific branches and SOF as a whole, there really isn't a lot you need to focus on. Look at the primary mission sets of each individual core missions- are those missions something you want to do for a career? For a lifetime? Those core mission sets aren't going to go away, while they may evolve.
 

CBL27

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I see your intent here; thanks for explaining your position in a respectful way.

The battlespace is always changing. Where JTAC was the focus of the CCT career field for a long time, remember that their primary mission set is austere airfield seizure and terminal area control. Those mission sets aren't going anywhere. Parallels can be made with SF focusing on UW and not so much DA, or Pararescue moving away from TACEVAC/CASEVAC and more on their Technical Rescue Specialties.

Outside of the constant evolution of the specific branches and SOF as a whole, there really isn't a lot you need to focus on. Look at the primary mission sets of each individual core missions- are those missions something you
I have looked at some of your posts on other forums and questions(mainly regarding Pararescue, and I am thankful for the expertise and knowledge base you have. In regards to the core missions, PJs' core mission has always appealed to me. As stated in the previously comment, I was simply trying to do my due diligence since people with much more life and military experience asked me to. As always, thanks for your time and response.
 

CBL27

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I have looked at some of your posts on other forums and questions(mainly regarding Pararescue, and I am thankful for the expertise and knowledge base you have. In regards to the core missions, PJs' core mission has always appealed to me. As stated in the previously comment, I was simply trying to do my due diligence since people with much more life and military experience asked me to. As always, thanks for your time and response.
There was supposed to be a closing parenthesis after Pararescue, and auto correct changed "previous" to "previously". My bad on the grammar mistakes.
 

KH

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Just to add some perspective: I was a TACP in the early 2000s and similar sentiments regarding CAS were around then, too. They also probably existed well before I came into the Air Force. One rumor was that the Army would completely take over the CAS mission and TACP would be gone within five years. That obviously never happened, and I personally believe TACP has evolved into something better since I was in it. Likewise I don't think the JTAC mission will disappear completely from CCT, even if they begin focusing on more traditional skill sets like austere airfield control.

As far as any alleged unprofessional behavior, I think things tend to get blown out of proportion some times. During tense situations people can come across as crass without it being their intent. Most in the military don't like to be told no, even if it needs to be said. Sometimes you need to be direct, even towards someone with more rank, if what they want is grossly infeasible or more seriously violates rules of engagement.
 

amlove21

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Just to add some perspective: I was a TACP in the early 2000s and similar sentiments regarding CAS were around then, too. They also probably existed well before I came into the Air Force. One rumor was that the Army would completely take over the CAS mission and TACP would be gone within five years. That obviously never happened, and I personally believe TACP has evolved into something better since I was in it. Likewise I don't think the JTAC mission will disappear completely from CCT, even if they begin focusing on more traditional skill sets like austere airfield control.

As far as any alleged unprofessional behavior, I think things tend to get blown out of proportion some times. During tense situations people can come across as crass without it being their intent. Most in the military don't like to be told no, even if it needs to be said. Sometimes you need to be direct, even towards someone with more rank, if what they want is grossly infeasible or more seriously violates rules of engagement.
Thanks for the input- please look into getting vetted through the board process here, it would be good to get another former TACP guy here on the board.
 

KH

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Thanks for the invite. Sorry I didn't reply back earlier but it had slipped my mind. I'll definitely consider going through the vetting, although I've been out of TACP for more than a decade. The career field appears to have jumped forward quite a bit from when I was in, so most of my advice would be pretty dated.
 

CDG

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Thanks for the invite. Sorry I didn't reply back earlier but it had slipped my mind. I'll definitely consider going through the vetting, although I've been out of TACP for more than a decade. The career field appears to have jumped forward quite a bit from when I was in, so most of my advice would be pretty dated.

Hey brother. You don't need to have the most up to date knowledge to be vetted. It's just so people know that you're coming from a place of experience and first hand knowledge. Gives more professionalism to the site, and saves you from being questioned on your background when people can see you've been vetted.
 

NikNifSik

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I spoke with a JAG from the US Air Force that was assigned to JSOC until recently. He was uncertain, but he seemed to be worried that I was putting to much emphasis on my interest in thee CAS portion of a Combat Controller's role in current conflicts. He said there is a decent possibility that it may not be as integral a part of their activities in the near future. He mentioned something about the Army getting tired of using Air Force CCTs that were not necessarily polite to some of the Army officers in charge of the units the CCTs were attached to when those officers tried to give them orders regarding CAS that seemed heinous to the Controllers. The JAG mentioned something about "rumors"(his way of hinting that they might be more than rumors) of Army SOF units trying to get more of their own men trained in JTAC roles so they wouldn't need CCTs as much. I was simply wondering if anyone that actually knows what they are talking about could shed some light on the situation. Is this unlikely, or is there some truth to it? The JAG was assigned to JSOC, but he's a JAG(not SOF). If this is a dumb, or already answered, question, I apologize.
Yes the Army SOF is trying to get more guys JTAC qualified, I personnally cant see our need for Air Force controllers going away anytime soon. Army SF already has too many hats, and as crazy as it sounds, there are times we cant let a guy get away to go get his controls, let alone the entire training course.
As for CCTs not being controllers, this last trip overseas was my first experience with one, and to me its a bit of a waste. The guy was awesome and was willing to pull guard shift, but other than being an Army or Marine private he wasn't much use to us on the trip.
Its good you're keeping your options open, the PJ course is supposedly no joke and has a high attrition rate. Good luck.
 
D

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Yes the Army SOF is trying to get more guys JTAC qualified, I personnally cant see our need for Air Force controllers going away anytime soon. Army SF already has too many hats, and as crazy as it sounds, there are times we cant let a guy get away to go get his controls, let alone the entire training course.
As for CCTs not being controllers, this last trip overseas was my first experience with one, and to me its a bit of a waste. The guy was awesome and was willing to pull guard shift, but other than being an Army or Marine private he wasn't much use to us on the trip.
Its good you're keeping your options open, the PJ course is supposedly no joke and has a high attrition rate. Good luck.

Just to confirm, a non-JTAC qualified CCT was attached to your team? If so, did he ever explain the purpose of his assignment to your trip?

Mad respect to him for being an asset to your team, considering the above circumstances.
 

NikNifSik

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Just to confirm, a non-JTAC qualified CCT was attached to your team? If so, did he ever explain the purpose of his assignment to your trip?

Mad respect to him for being an asset to your team, considering the above circumstances.
He specialized in surveys and could perform air traffic controls, but he could not drop bombs. He originally came to check the feasibility of an air strip in our AO, but that was not going to happen for multiple reasons.
 

Etype

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I don't see USASOC creating internal JTACs as a way of not relying on Air Force support, but more to ensure we have a capability when Air Force support isn't available.

There haven't always been enough Air Force JTACs to go around, especially at the height of the GWOT. Tbere are also times when it isn't feasible to bring another person on a mission.

I don't know of a single commander who wouldn't want a dedicated CCT/JTAC/Pararescueman, but sometimes it's just.not possible.
 

AWP

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He specialized in surveys and could perform air traffic controls, but he could not drop bombs. He originally came to check the feasibility of an air strip in our AO, but that was not going to happen for multiple reasons.

I met a CCT in Afghanistan who cross-decked to Iraq at the end of his deployment (2005). Non-JTAC, went over to Iraq to assess an airfield, died in a plane crash with 2 other CCT's I think.

Casey was a good dude.

Blue Skies.
 

Raksasa Kotor

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I met a CCT in Afghanistan who cross-decked to Iraq at the end of his deployment (2005). Non-JTAC, went over to Iraq to assess an airfield, died in a plane crash with 2 other CCT's I think.

Casey was a good dude.

Blue Skies.

That was the same crash that took one of our guys, as well.
 

CDG

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Just to confirm, a non-JTAC qualified CCT was attached to your team? If so, did he ever explain the purpose of his assignment to your trip?

Mad respect to him for being an asset to your team, considering the above circumstances.

The CCT careerfield was not built to be a JTAC careerfield. That's why there are TACPs. It's been with the last 17 years at war that the CCTs really made a big push into the JTAC mission set. There wasn't a huge call for ATC/airfield survey, and there weren't nearly enough JTACs to go around. The majority of the TACP careerfield is there to support the conventional Army. So the SOF dudes were even less supported. In the early days of IRQ/AFG, the Guard TACP community was doing a lot of support for ODAs, especially the Guard ODAs. As CCT started making more and more JTACs, they took more and more of that slice of the pie. Even with CCTs adding numbers to the mix, there are still not even close to enough JTACs to support the demand though. Things have slowed down a little, so CCT has started drifting back to their doctrinal mission set. Fewer guys are getting JTAC qual'd, and they are letting those who were qual'd go red.
 
D

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The CCT careerfield was not built to be a JTAC careerfield. That's why there are TACPs. It's been with the last 17 years at war that the CCTs really made a big push into the JTAC mission set. There wasn't a huge call for ATC/airfield survey, and there weren't nearly enough JTACs to go around. The majority of the TACP careerfield is there to support the conventional Army. So the SOF dudes were even less supported. In the early days of IRQ/AFG, the Guard TACP community was doing a lot of support for ODAs, especially the Guard ODAs. As CCT started making more and more JTACs, they took more and more of that slice of the pie. Even with CCTs adding numbers to the mix, there are still not even close to enough JTACs to support the demand though. Things have slowed down a little, so CCT has started drifting back to their doctrinal mission set. Fewer guys are getting JTAC qual'd, and they are letting those who were qual'd go red.

What is the AF doing to meet the demand for JTACs, in both conventional and SOF applications, as CCT increasingly drifts back to their doctrinal mission? I would assume, in my limited knowledge, Big Blue is emphasizing the recruitment of more TACPs and development of additional ST TACPs. Is this the case?

I am more curious, however, what solutions you and your guys in the career field have developed and believe the AF should implement.
 
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