Commandant calls for new crackdown on barracks life, Marine behavior

[policemedic]

:-/ "all armed, all the time?" What is his definition of "armed?" I remember when I was a young LT, my troops were pulling guard duty of the ammo bunkers "armed" with axe handles...

The only time I was ever issued live ammo for guard duty was for ASP duty @ Bragg; I had 5 whole rounds of 5.56!! I could have taken over the world!!

 

[TLDR20]

The only time I was ever issued live ammo for guard duty was for ASP duty @ Bragg; I had 5 whole rounds of 5.56!! I could have taken over the world!!

I feel like we used to be armed for lots of guard duties. But that was SF not reg army, but I think for ammo draw, demo draw, demo transport(?) I might be hazy in that though.

 

[Marauder06]

I feel like we used to be armed for lots of guard duties. But that was SF not reg army, but I think for ammo draw, demo draw, demo transport(?) I might be hazy in that though.

When we did guard duty at Campbell back in the mid-90s, as the platoon leader I was the only one armed with a gun.

I armed my whole company in Korea after 9/11 happened because our Bn XO (complete asshole and batshit crazy poser to boot) had "information" that our base was going to be attacked. What would you do if you were the CO? I broke out our "go to war" ammo, emptied the arms room, and had everyone who wasn't on shift pulling 24-hour guard duty or on QRF digging fighting positions and otherwise improving our perimeter. We were carrying live ammo (not locked and loaded, because by this time we all knew the Bn XO was FOS, but just in case, we had ammo on our persons) for a couple of days before the XO found out and went off because we had real bullets... to counter the (imaginary, apparently) threat he warned us about.

Good times...

 

[Polar Bear]

Video games? I think I read everything in the company library twice. I would walk the barracks and do a bit of hazing to Pvt's. Help newbies square their locker away give them the ins and outs. Spit shine boots, write letters home, play cards. Walk the 31st museum. (It was housed in the barracks) there is a million things to be done. It took me years just to break the habit of answering the phone. "31st Infantry SPC +**% speaking may I help you Sir or Mama?" We also had the drunk wagon, if you called we would come pick you up. Ironic that they ended it 3 months prior to my DUI and my downfall.

 

[0699]

I had to go back and read that again...did I read that he wants to "ARM" all Marines on duty at all time? Is he fucking nuts!?!

I feel like we used to be armed for lots of guard duties. But that was SF not reg army, but I think for ammo draw, demo draw, demo transport(?) I might be hazy in that though.

Back in the mid-80s, in our battalion area, the OOD, SDNCO, COG, and the post sentries (armory, motor pool, and it seems like there was one more post) were armed (round in the chamber) at all times. The guard detachment had weapons and ammo in the guard shack and there were almost always 4-5 guys there (off-post; sleeping, watching TV, etc) The DNCOs in the barracks were not armed, but the battalion CP was across the parking lot. Maybe a 30 second run for the OOD. Personally, I have no issues with the poststanders being armed. We are soldiers/Marines/etc.

When we did guard duty at Campbell back in the mid-90s, as the platoon leader I was the only one armed with a gun.

I armed my whole company in Korea after 9/11 happened because our Bn XO (complete asshole and batshit crazy poser to boot) had "information" that our base was going to be attacked. What would you do if you were the CO? I broke out our "go to war" ammo, emptied the arms room, and had everyone who wasn't on shift pulling 24-hour guard duty or on QRF digging fighting positions and otherwise improving our perimeter. We were carrying live ammo (not locked and loaded, because by this time we all knew the Bn XO was FOS, but just in case, we had ammo on our persons) for a couple of days before the XO found out and went off because we had real bullets... to counter the (imaginary, apparently) threat he warned us about.

Good times...

This was on Yongsan, right?

 

[goon175]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a laptop open on CQ, especially if it allows guys to knock out some homework or get things done they usually don't have time to do.

 

[pardus]

No wonder veterans are all crazy lol, dealing with this horse shit all the time would sent anyone around the bend.

Maybe it's a cultural difference but this micromanaging stuff is fucking ridiculous IMO.
In NZ we had one Officer and one NCO on duty per battalion.
Personal responsibility and looking after your mates was stressed. If you did something wrong you were punished accordingly.

 

[LimaOscarSierraTango]

What are the civilian (pre-military) attitude differences/similarities between the two countries? I don't think any other country can compare with the mindset that seems to be getting more and more prevalent in the US. IMO, that's why the reigns may need to be tightened in some areas. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I think they are trying to push discipline and personal responsibility, especially with the possibility of moving back to a garrison environment.

 

[pardus]

What are the civilian (pre-military) attitude differences/similarities between the two countries? I don't think any other country can compare with the mindset that seems to be getting more and more prevalent in the US. IMO, that's why the reigns may need to be tightened in some areas. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I think they are trying to push discipline and personal responsibility, especially with the possibility of moving back to a garrison environment.

I was and continue to be shocked with the lack of discipline in the US Military. Ive seen it in the Army, Air Force and the Marine Corps.
Behavior that would either never be seen or would be jumped on rapidly if it did happen. Most of the time discipline was internally controlled, i.e. the shame of doing the wrong thing was a huge factor. People would shun you if you were a fuck up until you picked your game up or you quit (contracts were for 20 years and could be broken with relative ease).
There was no counseling statements, you were pulled aside and corrected by an NCO verbally and formally, or given extra duty (which fucking sucks) or article 15'd. An article 15 wasn't a career ender like it is here (I was busted once from SGT, made the rank back in a year because I performed well and didnt fuck up again (great story BTW )).

NCOs are the biggest difference that Ive seen between the two Armies. I'm generally not impressed with what I see here (conventional Army).

Now to more specifically address your question, That is a complicated and involved question, not one I can properly answer here. I think the biggest difference is actually in Military training, but NZ as a country is generally more relaxed, has more personal responsibility and self sufficiency (but I do want to stress that I do see plenty of that here among certain groups and a lot of individuals).

However, I think NZ has gone down the shitter in the last 20 years, It's certainly not the same country I left and I despair for it. I can also poke lots of holes in the NZ Army too, it's far from perfect. My NZ Military experience is 14 years old and my country experience is a decade old, things have changed.

I do concede that I see a huge amount of retards wearing the uniform in the US Army (etc...) and maybe due to the culture the micro managing is needed more so than NZ, I certainly am a lot harsher to Soldiers here than I ever was back in NZ.
Honestly I'm still working it out. After reading this thread, I'm glad I'm not active duty.

 

[digrar]

No wonder veterans are all crazy lol, dealing with this horse shit all the time would sent anyone around the bend.

Maybe it's a cultural difference but this micromanaging stuff is fucking ridiculous IMO.
In NZ we had one Officer and one NCO on duty per battalion.
Personal responsibility and looking after your mates was stressed. If you did something wrong you were punished accordingly.

Pretty much the same for us, DNCO, BOS/DO and a runner/driver. If you fucked up in the lines the boys would beat the shit out of you, failing that the DNCO and BOS/DO would chuck you in the cells and then your Platoon Sergeant and CSM would tear you apart at the earliest opportunity. Self discipline was the order of the day, you were an Infantryman in the Royal Australian Regiment, act like it.

 

[pardus]

Pretty much the same for us, DNCO, BOS/DO and a runner/driver. If you fucked up in the lines the boys would beat the shit out of you, failing that the DNCO and BOS/DO would chuck you in the cells and then your Platoon Sergeant and CSM would tear you apart at the earliest opportunity. Self discipline was the order of the day, you were an Infantryman in the Royal Australian Regiment, act like it.

Exactly!

 

[0699]

NCOs are the biggest difference that Ive seen between the two Armies. I'm generally not impressed with what I see here (conventional Army).

I can't speak for the Army, my experience is a bit dated, and this is just my opinion...

A lot of that stems back to NCOs and SNCOs being out of control. Stupid shit started happening across the Corps, embarassing the officers, leading to the loss of responsibility for the NCOs. I remember being a young Marine and my NCOs seemed to control EVERYTHING. I rarely saw my OIC or any officer, and when I did it was usually because I'd fucked up. It seems to me that it changed for the Corps (with officers getting more involved in day-to-day shit) right when the two videos came out in the mid-90s. One was the blood wing pinning at 2nd AD Platoon, the other was the incident with hazing at the SDP. I believe the officer corps lost a lot of confidence in the NCOs at that point and started getting more involved. The officer involvement led a lot of NCOs to just step back and let the officers lead things, and now I think no one is really sure how to get things put right again.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think @0699 is pretty spot on with his assessment. There seems to be a lack of trust between officers and NCOs, I would also say between JNCOs and SNCOs as well.

Another big issue with discipline is the lack of trust when dealing with subordinate corrections/disciplinary issues. Officers getting their nose in NCO business, peer NCO from another squad/platoon trying to get involved in your business, sidelining your soldiers or questioning your methods with other NCOs.

I think it has a lot to do with young soldiers being promoted too quickly, lack of proper leadership skills/ schooling, and most of all a lack of professionalism/respect for the rank and or position.

I've seen/had really good Officer and NCO leadership, but I've had a lot more really bad leadership during my time.

 

[CDG]

Another issue that I've seen is the attitude of an NCO being a poor leader if he has to play the rank card. A lot of people want to pretend it's a level playing field and that it's somehow poor leadership for an NCO to point that they are an NCO and that the junior enlisted need to keep that in mind. We're not "bros". We lead, you do what you're fucking told within the boundaries of legality.

 

[goon175]

Another issue that I've seen is the attitude of an NCO being a poor leader if he has to play the rank card. A lot of people want to pretend it's a level playing field and that it's somehow poor leadership for an NCO to point that they are an NCO and that the junior enlisted need to keep that in mind. We're not "bros". We lead, you do what you're fucking told within the boundaries of legality.

"Don't mistake my kindness for weakness"

 

[Crusader74]

I don't understand why you would be against ALL of this....


■ Sergeants and corporals will return to the barracks, as basic allowance for housing is no longer allowed for single NCOs. This policy change was made in 2011, with the commandant saying it was necessary to save money and put the Corps’ new, impressive bachelor enlisted quarters to full use. I remember when SSG's (unmarried) had their BAQ pulled in '76. Bunch of unhappy campers; then since a number had less than 10, they pulled plug.

■ Senior officers, staff NCOs and NCOs will be in and out of the barracks regularly, especially between 8 p.m. and 4 a.m. BTDT when I had troops in the barracks. I wouldn't wake people up, but no one EVER knew when I would pop in to see your doing....

■ Company-grade officers will be assigned as officers on duty, and staff NCOs will be assigned as staff officers on duty. All Marines on duty will be required to wear service uniforms, either “Bravos” or “Charlies,” depending on which uniform is in season. Depending on the level of the command, not a bad idea, but could be overdone.

■ Two NCOs will be on duty per barracks, and a firewatch will be conducted on each floor of each building. In one of the LARGE barracks I could see that... but probably overkill along with a Fire Watch on each floor. Real easy to have so many people on duty, that the mission suffers.

■ Television and video games will not be allowed in the watchstander’s place of duty. They must be out and about, and not behind a desk. Good time to do professional reading, but should log patrols or walk throughs.

■ Commanders leading Marine expeditionary forces, major subordinate commands and installations must develop plans to “fight and win” in the barracks with their sergeants major. That does not make sense. Barracks should be NCO territory. If the SGTMAJ can't get the barracks under control... you need a new SgtMaj.

■ Every Marine above the rank of lance corporal must read “Leading Marines” and “Sustaining the Transformation” by Nov. 10, the Marine Corps’ 237th birthday. Both are official publications for the service, and focus on leadership. I thought the Corps had a reading list by rank. Mandatory reading is NOT a bad thing; but hell to try and manage/audit.

■ Marines will no longer be promoted to corporal or sergeant in groups. “Each promotion to these ranks will be personal and meaningful,” one of Amos’ briefing slides says. Nothing like being promoted with a gaggle of others.... As new NCO's are made, it does need to be something more than another promotion to PV-4.

■ The Corps will “refocus on the ‘basic daily routine’ business” of running a battalion or squadron. Officers and staff NCOs will be present in the morning as their Marines get ready for their day, conduct organized physical training and eat breakfast. In the Wing that could be a problem if your running 24/7 operations. But for most combat arms/CS/CSS units; it's doable. So just when did the officers and NCO's show up anyway?

Is there a need for all them duties? A central Base Duty/Stand too and 1-2 junior NCO's /Ptes for fire piquet. And wearing Service dress while armed also sucks.. I can relate to that. No reason why cammies is not used unless expecting a VIP of some sort.. Then change back to cammies..

 

[Crusader74]

Pretty much the same for us, DNCO, BOS/DO and a runner/driver. If you fucked up in the lines the boys would beat the shit out of you, failing that the DNCO and BOS/DO would chuck you in the cells and then your Platoon Sergeant and CSM would tear you apart at the earliest opportunity. Self discipline was the order of the day, you were an Infantryman in the Royal Australian Regiment, act like it.

We have BOS /DO & Barrack Guard and Stand too all armed.

 

[Marauder06]

I think @0699 is pretty spot on with his assessment. There seems to be a lack of trust between officers and NCOs, I would also say between JNCOs and SNCOs as well.

Another big issue with discipline is the lack of trust when dealing with subordinate corrections/disciplinary issues. Officers getting their nose in NCO business, peer NCO from another squad/platoon trying to get involved in your business, sidelining your soldiers or questioning your methods with other NCOs.

I think it has a lot to do with young soldiers being promoted too quickly, lack of proper leadership skills/ schooling, and most of all a lack of professionalism/respect for the rank and or position.

I've seen/had really good Officer and NCO leadership, but I've had a lot more really bad leadership during my time.

Anything going on in my unit is my business.

I rarely saw officers get into "NCO business" unless business wasn't getting done correctly.

 

[digrar]

Anything going on in my unit is my business.

Can't argue with that, but in my opinion the only way to go about making it your business is to empower the NCOs, SNCOs and WOs to sort it out and to hear the charges when/if they are bought to you.
Which will give you more time to sort other important things out, like unit admin, planning, case studies and the like.

 

[goon175]

I seriously can not stand the following:
-Officer business
-NCO business
-Sergeants Time