Congressional agreement on common combat uniform

Ravage

running up that hill
Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
3,864
Location
in Wonderland, with my Alice
http://www.militarytimes.com/articl...Congressional-agreement-common-combat-uniform

bilde

The days of service-specific combat and camouflage uniforms are clearly numbered as congressional committees have told the services to quit wasting money on their own unique styles. (U.S. Air National Guard / Staff Sgt. Jordan Jones)

The days of service-specific combat and camouflage uniforms are clearly numbered as the Senate Armed Services Committee has joined its House counterpart in telling the services to quit wasting money on their own unique styles.

The 2014 defense policy bill passed by the Senate committee says that with a few exceptions, the services would be prohibited from adopting new designs for combat and camouflage uniforms as of the day the bill becomes law.

The prohibition would extend to potential new designs using current fabric or camouflage patterns, in the event that the services try to simply move the pockets or change the seams to distinguish their specific uniforms.

The bill establishes as policy the requirement of reducing separate development and fielding of service-specific utility uniforms, saying that to the “maximum extent practicable,” the Defense Department should require the services to collectively adopt and field combat and camouflage uniforms.

This would not apply to special operating forces or to personnel supporting those forces.

Similar restrictions were passed by the House Armed Services Committee in its version of the defense bill, with one key difference.

The House measure, HR 1960, sets a deadline of Oct. 1, 2018, for a joint combat uniform to be in use. The Senate bill had no similar deadline, apparently content to let the services continue using their current unique designs but preventing any new uniforms from being developed unless they are shared across the force.

The Senate bill, S 1197, includes one camouflage uniform provision not mentioned by the House: It would prohibit any service from preventing another service from using their combat or camouflage uniform. That language may have been added with the Marine Corps in mind; the Corps has been highly protective of its distinctive “MarPat” design.

Differences between the House and Senate bills will have to be reconciled before a final bill becomes law.

The Senate committee notes that the services generally wore “the same pattern and family of combat camouflage and utility uniforms” before 2002, but slowly launched their own designs.

The Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, “found no performance standards for specific combat environments, no criteria for evaluating the effectiveness of camouflage patterns, and no requirements for the services to test interoperability between their uniforms and other tactical gear, despite the DoD establishing a Joint Clothing and Textiles Governance Board,” the Senate report says.

“The committee continues to strongly urge the secretaries of the military departments to explore additional methods for sharing uniform technology across the services as they develop their combat and utility uniform,” the report says.

“The committee continues to believe that combat and utility uniforms should incorporate the most advanced levels of protection and should be available to all men and women in uniform, regardless of the military service in which they serve.”
 
We needed Congress to tell us it was wasteful and completely unnecessary for every service to have their own combat uniform? I'm embarrassed for my profession.
 
Wow.

Now, on a side tangent, and I don't want to piss anyone off here...But why is SOF excluded from this? I guess that the effectiveness of the camouflage that a SOF team has while conducting raids/FID etc etc is more important than the effectiveness of the grunt that lives day to day in the environment that they're operating in? It's just something that confuses me. I think the camouflage sets we have now are fine though. Even though there are definitely some new designs that are pretty sweet and highly effective.
 
Wow.

Now, on a side tangent, and I don't want to piss anyone off here...But why is SOF excluded from this? I guess that the effectiveness of the camouflage that a SOF team has while conducting raids/FID etc etc is more important than the effectiveness of the grunt that lives day to day in the environment that they're operating in? It's just something that confuses me. I think the camouflage sets we have now are fine though. Even though there are definitely some new designs that are pretty sweet and highly effective.
Yes, for certain units.
The only thing I don't agree with is the restriction on modifying current uniforms. I don't think that was thought through well enough.
 
Wow.

Now, on a side tangent, and I don't want to piss anyone off here...But why is SOF excluded from this? I guess that the effectiveness of the camouflage that a SOF team has while conducting raids/FID etc etc is more important than the effectiveness of the grunt that lives day to day in the environment that they're operating in? It's just something that confuses me. I think the camouflage sets we have now are fine though. Even though there are definitely some new designs that are pretty sweet and highly effective.

If you are on a low profile mission in a country whose soldiers wear BDU's, it may be beneficial to have on the same uniform.... There are different reasons to wear different uniforms other than just the camouflage.
 
Last edited:
Wow.

Now, on a side tangent, and I don't want to piss anyone off here...But why is SOF excluded from this? I guess that the effectiveness of the camouflage that a SOF team has while conducting raids/FID etc etc is more important than the effectiveness of the grunt that lives day to day in the environment that they're operating in? It's just something that confuses me. I think the camouflage sets we have now are fine though. Even though there are definitely some new designs that are pretty sweet and highly effective.

It's partly a question of scale. If there are "X" number of SOF troops in the military, there are many, many x "X" troops in the general purpose forces. Also, even inside SOF not everyone wears a non-standard uniform. I did multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan with three different SOF units, and the enabling job I did in support of those missions never required me to wear anything other than the Army standard. Finally, SOF units' culture, funding, small size, and organizational agility tend to put them towards the front of research, development, and fielding. A lot of what you see in SOF eventually trickles out to the GPF. IMO that's why you saw so many pockets on the ACUs, that came from SOF.
 
If you are on a low profile mission in a country whose soldiers wear BDU's, it may be beneficial to have on the same uniform.... There are different reasons to wear different uniforms other than just the camouflage.
I completely understand this aspect. IME though, the uniform that I need in order to blend in is already in place and doesn't require the millions spent on designing, testing, and fielding. I'm all about guys getting the best stuff that they need to get the job done. However, I personally feel that the individuals making decisions on who gets what, sets a hierarchy on the value of the life based off of the unit they're in.
 
I think its sad that our elected officials have to tell our armed forces to work together on something like picking an effective combat uniform.

I also think its silly that anything that could possibly be developed with all 4 branches would not be good enough for SOF. Thus SOF gets an out and the conventional forces will be fucked with another bullshit pattern and low service life uniform.

I get tailoring to the environment, that only makes sense. But why would CF not be alowed to do so as well? I'm not saying SOF should not be able to do so, I just don't think CF should be excluded from doing so as well.

That said, man I really hope everyone gets smart and does away with the velcro and eleventeen pockets bullshit. The old BDUs was a GTG uniform, update the pattern and maybe add some button closer shoulder pockets and call the shit good.

My$0.02
 
I think the SOF exclusion is because the language is an "either/ all" deal. If you allow wiggle room then you're back to the MARPAT/ UCP/ ABU/ etc. fiasco. We've become a nation of outhouse lawyers seeking loopholes and I'll bet a dollar if some CF general had his/ her way UCP 2: Electric Boogaloo would come to a base near you in the next year.

We replaced common sense with the shadow puppet of rules...
 
I think the SOF exclusion is because the language is an "either/ all" deal. If you allow wiggle room then you're back to the MARPAT/ UCP/ ABU/ etc. fiasco. We've become a nation of outhouse lawyers seeking loopholes and I'll bet a dollar if some CF general had his/ her way UCP 2: Electric Boogaloo would come to a base near you in the next year.

We replaced common sense with the shadow puppet of rules...
I think its sad that our elected officials have to tell our armed forces to work together on something like picking an effective combat uniform.

I also think its silly that anything that could possibly be developed with all 4 branches would not be good enough for SOF. Thus SOF gets an out and the conventional forces will be fucked with another bullshit pattern and low service life uniform.

I get tailoring to the environment, that only makes sense. But why would CF not be alowed to do so as well? I'm not saying SOF should not be able to do so, I just don't think CF should be excluded from doing so as well.

That said, man I really hope everyone gets smart and does away with the velcro and eleventeen pockets bullshit. The old BDUs was a GTG uniform, update the pattern and maybe add some button closer shoulder pockets and call the shit good.

My$0.02
As stated earlier, SOF may need to wear something similar to a host nation unit for personal safety. This gives them the option, and no, most CF units don't need to dress up like the HN troops.

FF- Agree, but the language is too restrictive. Changing seam locations should not be considered as making a new uniform. e.g- If the AF suddenly figured out that shoulder pockets were useful, this bill prevents them from adding pockets to what is essentially an existing uniform. I don't see that as a common sense approach.
 
FF- Agree, but the language is too restrictive. Changing seam locations should not be considered as making a new uniform. e.g- If the AF suddenly figured out that shoulder pockets were useful, this bill prevents them from adding pockets to what is essentially an existing uniform. I don't see that as a common sense approach.

I agree with you. Maybe we're talking past each other? We can't have a common sense approach because common sense is dead. They have to lawyer it up to stupid levels or else we'll be right back to where we are now. They would have to essentially add additional language to cover pockets or minor alterations and what constitutes "minor" alterations.

Which is why my first post is "I'll believe it when I see it." This will get some press and then it will be quietly revised.
 
They can make any pattern, any pocket config....I'll find a place to put my cope.....:thumbsup:

But if they make these things out of the faggot flame retardant material...........what the OCP/ACU's are made from...
I'm gonna be mad....mostly because that's another uniform I have to keep up (they last like 1 month, and they never smell clean)

RECAP!
First 10 yrs in the Army, no changes
Last 7 years:
2 different sets of dress Uniform
2 different types of Combat Uniform
1 new PT Uniform.

WTF is going on here.......:thumbsdown::wall::blkeye::zzz:
 
The prohibition would extend to potential new designs using current fabric or camouflage patterns, in the event that the services try to simply move the pockets or change the seams to distinguish their specific uniforms.


So unit/deployment/school patches etc...?
 
As stated earlier, SOF may need to wear something similar to a host nation unit for personal safety. This gives them the option, and no, most CF units don't need to dress up like the HN troops.

So I guess all those CF guys who were training, advising and leading IA soldiers would be SOL now? What about unit Cdr's being able to say "yeah scout plt, you can modify your uniform to better blend in".

There are a lot of CF soldiers who don't wear a uniform or alter as well.

My point is don't fuck the CF guy with stupid policy, that some stupid guy in charge will always take over board.
 
As stated earlier, SOF may need to wear something similar to a host nation unit for personal safety. This gives them the option, and no, most CF units don't need to dress up like the HN troops.

I think allowing SOF units to wear other uniforms to blend in with locals isn't the same as being able to have their own uniform. IMO, the same rules with the same requirements should extend across the board. If anyone in any billet needs to dress to blend in, they should be allowed to do so.

As much as I hate seeing the MARPAT go away (great uniform), I understand and agree with the benefits of one national utility uniform.
 
Just get me out of ACU's, they're ugly as fuck and more importantly don't blend in with shit. I'm inly a year in the army and can't stand them. One of my NCOs let me try on an old pair of bdus, and they are far superior, well worth the whole starch thing, they look 100x more professional than the space man suits. One of my other NCOs who is prior service in the Marines insisted that I try in some MARPAT unis and they are also far superior in both feel and functionality.
 
I expect that SOF elements would be given the leeway to improvise and adapt beyond the CF. I'll trust a team guy to dress himself for work before I trust a general officer to pick another uniform. I don't care if a SOF guy stands in the chow line wearing 3 different uniforms at the same time as long as I get 1 good uniform that does what it is supposed to do.

I hope we all end up one uniform that works and end the multimillion dollar inter-service dick measuring.
 
Back
Top