Congressional agreement on common combat uniform

[Ranger Psych]

Joe still is under the guise of his spec-4's and TL's. If properly empowered to do so, NCO's will enforce a strict "use common sense" rule.

By the time I left 1/75, you had a ton of leeway to make your uniform work for you and the job you were doing. The only caveat was that if someone (higher ranking) asked you why you had something a certain way, and all you had to say was, "it looks cool" - then you would more than likely be getting back in line pretty quickly. But if you tore apart and re-sewed things, or modified equipment, whatever - and you could demonstrate why what you are doing is better - you were left alone at the minimum, or told to show everyone else so they could implement it at the maximum.

I don't see why the rest of combat arms can't have the same responsibility. The guys at the platoon level and lower know what they need better than those that are instituting asinine rules at the battalion and higher levels.

I'll even take it a step farther. If a PSG knows he will be doing an extended movement through the mountains in Afghanistan, he should have the leeway to say, "hey, drop the plate carrier and helmets, we are using racks and PC's" so that his men can negotiate the terrain with out injury or unnecessary exhaustion, as well as fight and maneuver against the enemy effectively.

What I am getting at is the Army doesn't trust it's small unit leaders, and I firmly believe that lives have been lost because of it.

We were working towards that, no thanks to a specific CSM prior to a CSM/RSM/RHOF member now. SOP's SOP for a reason, but you could diverge from it (and have those sensible divergences incorporated INTO the SOP) if it truly made the mission better, or you perform better.

I never had much more to do in terms of uniform or equipment modifications that was necessary, at least in my eyes. I can see ruck tweaking, and I can see (having been there when we went from ALICE pseudo-dress-right-dress to MOLLE/PALS) being able to put shit on your gear where it works for you. The whole "you will have your magazine pouches spaced one pals strip apart centered on the centerline as worn with grenade pouches following onn either side where you will never reach them with an aid pouch emplaced center mass to ensure that not only do you have an overt center point for the enemys sights to rest upon but should you survive enough to try to render self-aid, your bandages will be shot through" bullshit doesn't conform to reality.

Peoples feet are different. Peoples positions they need to mount gear differ duty to duty and person to person. You need latitude to be able to adjust your uniform according to necessity of the soldier, and of the mission.

I've actually got a picture somewhere where an actual patrol mission was boonie, brown tshirt, RACK, SAW, DCU bottoms and boots. That was the uniforrm... Oh, and camelbak plus double 1 quarts/2 quart. When you're having to rock climb where goats fear to tread, you need to work that shit. Especially when it's fucking 115+ out.

We got it done, nobody died. Hell, one of our OP's uniforms when outside of the buildings was body armor, helmet, boots. Pt's were the uniform otherwise. Even one of the QRF missions I rolled on was a hip pocket uniform call... we needed to roll quicker than we needed to get dressed, so here I am in tevas, PT shorts, body armor with no shirt whatsoever, kpot w/ NVG's and my SAW. Get'er done with what you got.

Normal shit? yeah we wore our DCU's. We would have dropped plates and/or armor depending. I specifically rigged my gear so that my RACK actually interfaced with fastex on my armor, so I could drop my armor as one unit and have everything I wore, in the same positions, retained.

Plus, for all those modifications and various shit that we did, we'd usually end up showing the shit off to the other guys doing the same job..... someone would go "that'll work till" "Oh, you're right.. so what about this?" "ok, that sounds like it'll work better" "yeah but it's going to ride like ass" "so's your mom but the platoon doesn't bitch" "1ST SQUAD!!!!!!!!!!"

Etc, etc etc.

 

[0699]

Because having intelligent, empowered subordinates is perceived as a threat to certain senior personnel (i.e. "if I didn't think of it, then the idea sucks").

I clicked "agree" after reading just this far.

I hope the rest of your post doesn't talk about gay Marines... :wall:

 

[Totentanz]

I clicked "agree" after reading just this far.

I hope the rest of your post doesn't talk about gay Marines... :wall:

Don't worry; I'll edit something in there for ya.

 

[AWP]

I clicked "agree" after reading just this far.

I hope the rest of your post doesn't talk about gay Marines... :wall:

Well, if ya'll couldn't read your feelings wouldn't be hurt. See what happens when you learn to read?

 

[Raksasa Kotor]

Well, if ya'll couldn't read your feelings wouldn't be hurt. See what happens when you learn to read?

The Corps told me I had to leave when they found out I knew how to read

 

[Mac_NZ]

Meanwhile what are the thoughts on ripping of multicam with the new pattern.


Shady as shady gets IMHO...

I know JAB's gone but his comment is (in my mind) worth replying to. Scorpion was developed by NATICK and Crye as a joint venture. Army owns Scorpion period, Crye then went off and enhanced Scorpion into what became Multicam as a commercial venture (note the Army did not come after them for doing this, key being they enhanced Scorpion, a pattern the Army owned). The changes made to Scorpion to make it Scorpion W2 for the new ensemble make it look so similar to Multicam in the fact that they both started at the same point with the same pattern. The differences between W2 and Multicam are there (Multicam has a couple of extra slugs and vertical elements) though which is what makes the whole thing legal.

In my opinion the Army would have been insane to use Multicam when they had a solution sitting right there and have had for a long time. If the Army had taken Krypteks or Brockwood's covert entries to the trials and changed them slightly to suit and gone with that I would be singing a different tune.

 

[pardus]

I know JAB's gone but his comment is (in my mind) worth replying to. Scorpion was developed by NATICK and Crye as a joint venture. Army owns Scorpion period, Crye then went off and enhanced Scorpion into what became Multicam as a commercial venture (note the Army did not come after them for doing this, key being they enhanced Scorpion, a pattern the Army owned). The changes made to Scorpion to make it Scorpion W2 for the new ensemble make it look so similar to Multicam in the fact that they both started at the same point with the same pattern. The differences between W2 and Multicam are there (Multicam has a couple of extra slugs and vertical elements) though which is what makes the whole thing legal.

In my opinion the Army would have been insane to use Multicam when they had a solution sitting right there and have had for a long time. If the Army had taken Krypteks or Brockwood's covert entries to the trials and changed them slightly to suit and gone with that I would be singing a different tune.

Very interesting. Thanks.

 

[goon175]

That is very interesting... is there any sources to back that up by chance? Not calling you out, but would be interested to see more on the matter.

 

[Mac_NZ]

There's quite a few but Soldier Systems does the best breakdown of the history of it.

Hyperstealth does a good run down on it as well. You have to ignore Guy Cramer pimping the fuck out of Pencott in that link though.

 

[pardus]

(Army News Service, July 31, 2014) -- The Army has confirmed what Soldiers have been hearing rumors of for months now -- a new camouflage pattern for combat uniforms is on the way with a number of improvements.

Beginning in the fall of 2015, the Army will begin issuing to new Soldiers an Army Combat Uniform that bears the Operational Camouflage Pattern. That same uniform will also become available in military clothing sales stores in the summer of 2015.

Soldiers are expected to retire their current uniform and begin wearing the new pattern by the summer of 2018.


http://www.army.mil/article/131259/Soldiers_to_get_new_camo_uniform_beginning_next_summer/


http://soldiersystems.net/2014/08/0...mouflage-pattern-variant-army-combat-uniform/

 

[AKkeith]

Thank God. They dropped the plan to kill service specific uniforms.

But they do need to stop wasting Billions changing Camis from one pointless pattern to another every other year.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...s.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm#.VIANNnNrGV4.mailto

 

[pardus]

Camo update: New ACUs hit store shelves July 1

 

[HOLLiS]

Thank God. They dropped the plan to kill service specific uniforms.

But they do need to stop wasting Billions changing Camis from one pointless pattern to another every other year.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...s.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm#.VIANNnNrGV4.mailto

I read the link and the comments. The rusher dude seems like a douche. One comment depending on one's cleaning service that in time with blood, sweat, mud etc.. the camo pattern is lost. My trouser would turn to a greasy brown in the legs after a week or so. Our maid service was slow, sometimes a month to two months for a clean cloths. Some had holes in them, some need repair but they where clean.

Other comment, which could be very passable, some one had their hand in the camo jar.

Probably a good idea to keep it simple. IIRC, going into the Korean War Marines still wore leggings. They where told to not wear them. Seems the enemy did not want to engage the Marines went there where other targets available.