Fixes Soldiers Want

[ThunderHorse]

That was my interpretation when the Marine Corps made that change back in 2003ish? Soldiers get a yearly uniform allowance, officers receive a one time uniform allowance when they access to active duty. But as I tell my Soldiers, you're a professional and must maintain your appearance and your kit year round. And we all know everyone spends that money on a new TV.

Also, can we get a change in the fabric used in our combat uniform to what the Marine Corps uses. Which is 50/50 NYCO Twill rather than 50/50 NYCO RIPSTOP?

 

[compforce]

And they did change the tattoo policy, to make the force more professional. There's a whole lot of canvas between the Kneck, Elbows, and Knees. And it no longer stops a soldier from attempting to commission or go warrant.

I understand the reasoning behind the tattoo policy. What concerns me is that it is just another indicator that focus has been lost. The Army is NOT a civilian company that has to present a clean image to make sales. Its mission is NOT to make everyone feel good about each other. The Army's mission is first to present a deterrence to help prevent war by making the other guy afraid of the consequences and second to close with and destroy the enemy if they ignore the deterrence. Everything the military, specifically Army, does should be evaluated on the effect it will have on those two missions before anything else.

Frankly, I don't care if a soldier has tattoos from the soles of their feet to the top of their (shaven) head. I don't care if they file their teeth into points or have 500 pieces of body jewelry. I don't care if they wear BDU's, ACU's, DCU's OG107s. I don't care if they wear Oakley Boots, Vibram boots, Goretex boots or a pair of plate armor boots. As long as the force as a whole can accomplish the two missions, it's cool with me.

In what way, specifically, does prohibiting tattoos advance either one of the Army's missions?

The problem today is that we, the USA, have forgotten how to win wars. We're really good at winning battles, but we've forgotten how you win a war. You make the other guy lose his will to fight before you lose yours. The tattoo policy is just another sign that the military has forgotten as well. The leadership is more interested in a force that "looks professional" than one that wins wars. The leadership is more interested in the diversity of the force and being sensitive to individual lifestyles than in having a force that is proficient (as opposed to professional).

Back pre-desert storm we used to talk about the difference between a garrison soldier and a field soldier. The concensus was that you could be one or the other, but very few were both. The current direction is to get rid of the field soldiers and have a force composed entirely of garrison soldiers. Very few battles are fought in garrison. Who is going to fight the next one? You need both types. You need the garrison soldier that can fill out paperwork correctly. You need the garrison soldier that is all spit and polish for the next parade or ceremony. You also need that guy that you would never show to the world, but that can be pulled out, dusted off, pointed in a direction and that can go forth and kill the other guy with his weapon, his knife, his hands and even his teeth if necessary. He's not polished. He's not elegant. He doesn't know which fork to use or how to speak publicly. He has tattoos and broken teeth and cauliflower ears. He inspires terror just with his appearance. That one is the warrior... And if you get rid of him, who will take his place?

For the record, I don't have any tattoos.

 

[racing_kitty]

I want to kick one of my Corporals out of the Army. He's a dirtbag that thinks he's gods gift. He's just gone downhill since I've been his PL. What I think should happen is once someone is made a corporal they need to get an NCOER.

Having never been a corporal, I didn't know that they didn't receive NCOERs. I've officially learned something today. Thank you for that. That being said, take his stripes. You're his PL, use your authority, such as it is. If he's a shit smear, then wipe him off. If he doesn't get NCOER, then bring it home on his monthly DA4856. Put him back on the sham shield, then when he continues to keep tap dancing on his reproductive organs with razor-bladed golf cleats, let the chapter paperwork be the next step in the escalation of force. You've got options, and plenty of them, so long as he's actually a shitbag. You just have to know how to finesse the system and word things properly.

 

[compforce]

Having never been a corporal, I didn't know that they didn't receive NCOERs. I've officially learned something today. Thank you for that. That being said, take his stripes. You're his PL, use your authority, such as it is. If he's a shit smear, then wipe him off. If he doesn't get NCOER, then bring it home on his monthly DA4856. Put him back on the sham shield, then when he continues to keep tap dancing on his reproductive organs with razor-bladed golf cleats, let the chapter paperwork be the next step in the escalation of force. You've got options, and plenty of them, so long as he's actually a shitbag. You just have to know how to finesse the system and word things properly.

Depends. If he's a DA Corporal (meaning he has actual orders for his Corporal stripes) you can't just take them away. It would take an Article 15 to do it.

 

[racing_kitty]

Depends. If he's a DA Corporal (meaning he has actual orders for his Corporal stripes) you can't just take them away. It would take an Article 15 to do it.

I forgot about DA. Thanks.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I think the idea that Soldiers are either field Soldiers or Garrison Soldiers is wrong. Because if the Soldier is a good Soldier, he can be polite, have his uniform polished up, and then be proficient at his MOS. And in regards to the Garrison piece...I've done one parade in three years, that was 2-16 CAV CoC when I was at Benning. Units need to do review parades once a quarter, why you ask? Well I did them twice weekly in college, but that's not the reason. The Reason is that the Army has an identity crisis, we're really and I mean really shitty about preserving out history. Pomp and Circumstance, Drill, cadences and all that unmotivating stuff that folks complain about is part of being in the Martial service. And yeah, when you wear ACUs all day, the public doesn't see your ankle or forearm.

But the biggest change that needs to occur is the AIT portion for 11 Series and 19 Series needs to be longer and harsher. Why is Benning sending the FORCE Soldiers who cannot pass the APFT or meet heigh and weight.

I've never seen a DA Corporal. In my previous unit, they made people Corporals in Support MOSs and points were insane. Not necessarily had they been boarded or gone to WLC.

 

[compforce]

I think the idea that Soldiers are either field Soldiers or Garrison Soldiers is wrong. Because if the Soldier is a good Soldier, he can be polite, have his uniform polished up, and then be proficient at his MOS. And in regards to the Garrison piece...I've done one parade in three years, that was 2-16 CAV CoC when I was at Benning. Units need to do review parades once a quarter, why you ask? Well I did them twice weekly in college, but that's not the reason. The Reason is that the Army has an identity crisis, we're really and I mean really shitty about preserving out history. Pomp and Circumstance, Drill, cadences and all that unmotivating stuff that folks complain about is part of being in the Martial service. And yeah, when you wear ACUs all day, the public doesn't see your ankle or forearm.

We may have to disagree on the field vs. garrison thing. I will tell you that I got to see it back when it was hard and the current force. I'd put the people that were warriors back then up against 90% of today's Army. They got in fights, they got DUIs, they had tattoos and scars. They also wouldn't make it past E3 with the rules today. They were the ones that would bring the other guys home.

I think there has to be two armies. One is the one you show the world, the other is the one that does the fighting. Sure there will be *some* who can do both well. The expectation of everyone doing both has reduced the capability of the force. Leadership has gotten rid of the outliers on both ends and now have an Army that represents the median. Exceptionalism in the Army has been destroyed. Now a career in combat arms is no longer, except in some SOF units, about being better at killing the other guy. It's no longer about being able to teach someone else how to kill the other guy. It's about fitting in, playing nice and looking good. If you can't do those, you won't have the chance to kill the other guy. TTPs have improved, but if you normed the force today against previous forces, the average soldier today would, IMO, be lower in proficiency at the Army mission than the soldier of yesteryear.

But the biggest change that needs to occur is the AIT portion for 11 Series and 19 Series needs to be longer and harsher. Why is Benning sending the FORCE Soldiers who cannot pass the APFT or meet heigh and weight.

Because they have selected out too many potential soldiers with various policies, like the tattoo policy, reducing the recruiting pool and ultimately forcing a lowering of the standards at AIT in order to make their numbers. I'm with you on 11 and 19 series needing to hold the line on standards.

I've never seen a DA Corporal. In my previous unit, they made people Corporals in Support MOSs and points were insane. Not necessarily had they been boarded or gone to WLC.

I've seen three of them. All of them were 11 series. The unit would do it when they had a squared away soldier getting ready to PCS and they wanted to force the gaining unit to put the soldier in a leadership role.

 

[Ranger Psych]

That was my interpretation when the Marine Corps made that change back in 2003ish? Soldiers get a yearly uniform allowance, officers receive a one time uniform allowance when they access to active duty. But as I tell my Soldiers, you're a professional and must maintain your appearance and your kit year round. And we all know everyone spends that money on a new TV.

Also, can we get a change in the fabric used in our combat uniform to what the Marine Corps uses. Which is 50/50 NYCO Twill rather than 50/50 NYCO RIPSTOP?

Fuck that twill bullshit. I was HAPPY to never have to wear winter BDU's again once I got to Regiment. Those things are fucking horrible, even in the winter. I think spending too much time in a vehicle with a heater instead of having to actually move through terrain on foot for extended periods of time has caused clouded judgement to color commentary.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I think it can be done. But the Army would have to be OK with some issues, probably would be alright with barfights, but I don't think the Army will deal with DUIs. Being a garrison and field Soldier, which makes a Good Soldier is a very hard thing to do. But I understand your point about tattoos, I'm just officering here and saying why the Army did it.

I would go with the same weight as the Desert MCCUU, because there's a massive difference between the Woodlands and Deserts. That's one of the reasons why the Corps switches in the the Spring/Summer to Deserts. All I know is the RIPSTOP stains and retains stains way easier than my friends MCCUUs did when we were in the school house.

And no, I'm not about that winter weight life either.

The other day my 1SG talked smack about the Australians and the British saying we were better. I honestly wanted to punt him. I served in a French Battalion for 7 months, they may not have the best equipment, but they train their asses off and it was rough. Basic Training for a British Infantry Soldier is 26 weeks at Catterick...and if you've ever seen Catterick the terrain is not fun. And then their Armor/Recce Soldiers go through split training at Moore Barracks and then Camp Bovington.