Human Intelligence Collector (HUMINT 35M) in Army SF

[Gurahiyi]

Hello all,

I am meeting with my recruiter on 6th of July to try and sort out my Army MOS. Preface, I have ACT, College GPA, and High School GPA in the 99th percentile nationally, so the ASVAB and DLAB shouldn't be exceedingly difficult (I have a perfect score in English and Reading Comprehension on the ACT). My question is about getting into either Army SF or the Ranger Regiment with that MOS. I previously considered Infantry (11X) and Cavalry Scout (19D) and am still considering 11X Option 40 or an 18X contract as valid choices. However, if I were to take a 35M contract, is it possible to still get Option 40 as well for a guaranteed shot at Ranger Regiment? I see from their web page How to Become an Army Ranger that it is an acceptable MOS, but I am not sure if I can guarantee a shot at entry with that MOS. Another thing is, would that be a valuable MOS to an ODA team? I can see, if this information is correct, Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha (SFOD A) | A Teams that each ODA has one slot for an intel MOS. Would a 35M be considered a good option to fill that slot? Also, I am 18 years old, and am set on enlisting. Going to college is not an option at this time (even with ROTC) due to financial constraints. I will be applying to USMA/USNA/USAF throughout my initial enlistment. If that fails, I will be attending university after my initial enlistment using the GI Bill plus the Hazlewood Act and any saved funds, as well as any benefits I might receive from the Reserves at that time. From there I will either go to graduate school and enter the private sector or else return to the military.

Regards,
Gurahiyi

 

[Topkick]

I can only tell you that while 19D is a great job, it wont get you into the Ranger Regiment. You can attempt to earn the Ranger Tab as a Cavalry Scout but if you want to serve in the 75th, go infantry.

 

[Il Duce]

There are situations where a HUMINT collection team of 35Ms will support SOF - but it's going to be very rare that one 35M would somehow operate inside an ODA. 18 series Soldiers have their own source collecting progression all the way up to CAT I so no real need for embedded 35Ms.

 

[AWP]

- If you want to be a Ranger, get an Option 40 contract
- If you want to be Special Forces, get an 18X contract
- A prior MI MOS will have no bearing on becoming a Special Forces Intelligence Sergeant.
- 19D...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
- As a general aside, why do highschoolers pimp their stats? No one cares and once you enlist none of it matters. You're a new person, you're born again.
- You want to be on an ODA, go 18x and earn the beret. Too many support guys angle for a team....if you want to do cool guy stuff, go to the cool guy school. Be a support guy or a team guy, but don't try to be both at the same time. (I'm a former SF support guy and have seen in WAAAAAYYYYYY too often. Guys that try to angle for a team as a support guy tend to be tools)
- You're going to go to the 75th or SF, but continuously apply for an Academy slot? I know nothing of your odds, but that's an incredibly selfish thing to do. You used the SOF community to jump ship as soon as possible? That's a dick move.

 

[Topkick]

- 19D...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!.

here we go again.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

- 19D...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!.

here we go again.

LOL

 

[Topkick]

LOL

View attachment 19046

Gotta stand for something

 

[Marauder06]

I commanded the Group MI set at 5th Group. The only way a young 35 series is useful to an ODA is if you are really, really good at a language that none of the rest of them can speak very well. That, or if they need someone for radio watch. A. brand new HUMIBT collector is going g to provide very little value to a full up ODA.

 

[Gurahiyi]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold up. There's a reason I said I considered 19D in past tense. It's no longer something I'm considering. No need to turn this thread into a Cav Scout roast.
@AWP , "- A prior MI MOS will have no bearing on becoming a Special Forces Intelligence Sergeant." thanks for clearing that up. I knew they selected who they wanted for each slot on their own, but I assumed (incorrectly) that certain prior MOSs would influence that decision. @Il Duce , are there any Intel MOSs that are frequently embedded with SF? I have nothing against taking a 11X Option 40 or 18X contract for the record, I'm just looking at intel cause my Dad is intel and he's preferential to my getting a non-infantry mos, but I'm set on SF as combatant. I was just looking to see if there was a middle ground. I don't qualify for many Intel positions due to age, this just seemed like one that might make for a suitable compromise that I could get into. @AWP " As a general aside, why do highschoolers pimp their stats? No one cares and once you enlist none of it matters. You're a new person, you're born again." I didn't realize I was pimping my stats, apologies. I understood that the DLAB was somewhat difficult to get a good score on so I thought the background was relevant so that my academic standing wouldn't be questioned. "You're going to go to the 75th or SF, but continuously apply for an Academy slot? I know nothing of your odds, but that's an incredibly selfish thing to do. You used the SOF community to jump ship as soon as possible? That's a dick move." I don't seem to understand this part. Anyone who attends a Service Academy has a mandatory service obligation at the end. I would of course try to spend that time back in SF (of whatever branch I was in). Being able to attend one of the Service Academies is an incredible opportunity, I feel it would be foolish to turn down such a chance. If anything, in my mind at least (which may be incorrrect), I look at like any other training school (say pathfinder or airborne or ranger or whatever have you) just... very extended. In any case if I return to the SF community and apply what I learn, how is it wrong?

 

[Ooh-Rah]

@Gurahiyi -

I'm not qualified to answer your questions so my opinions do not matter. But...I can contribute to this thread by reposting your response with a paragraph or two and fixing a few obvious spelling errors.

This read much easier and will allow someone who is qualified to answer your questions, or at least read what you wrote.

(Before you respond that you wrote that on your phone, so did I, sweating it out on the stationary bike - my apologies for the sweat stains on the screen)

Whoa whoa whoa, hold up. There's a reason I said I considered 19D in past tense. It's no longer something I'm considering. No need to turn this thread into a Cav Scout roast.

@AWP , SAID: "- A prior MI MOS will have no bearing on becoming a Special Forces Intelligence Sergeant."

Thanks for clearing that up. I knew they selected who they wanted for each slot on their own, but I assumed (incorrectly) that certain prior MOSs would influence that decision.


@Il Duce SAID:, are there any Intel MOSs that are frequently embedded with SF?

I have nothing against taking a 11X Option 40 or 18X contract for the record, I'm just looking at intel cause my Dad is intel and he's preferential to my getting a non-infantry MOS.

I'm set on SF as combatant. I was just looking to see if there was a middle ground. I don't qualify for many Intel positions due to age, this just seemed like one that might make for a suitable compromise that I could get into.


@AWP " SAID: As a general aside, why do highschoolers pimp their stats? No one cares and once you enlist none of it matters. You're a new person, you're born again."

I didn't realize I was pimping my stats, apologies. I understood that the DLAB was somewhat difficult to get a good score on so I thought the background was relevant so that my academic standing wouldn't be questioned.


"@AWP " SAID: You're going to go to the 75th or SF, but continuously apply for an Academy slot? I know nothing of your odds, but that's an incredibly selfish thing to do. You used the SOF community to jump ship as soon as possible? That's a dick move."

I don't seem to understand this part. Anyone who attends a Service Academy has a mandatory service obligation at the end. I would of course try to spend that time back in SF (of whatever branch I was in). Being able to attend one of the Service Academies is an incredible opportunity, I feel it would be foolish to turn down such a chance. If anything, in my mind at least (which may be incorrrect), I look at like any other training school (say Pathfinder or Airborne or Ranger or whatever have you) just... very extended.

In any case if I return to the SF community and apply what I learn, how is it wrong?

 

[Gurahiyi]

@Ooh-Rah Umm... no excuse. I just rushed and didn't pay as much attention as I should have. My apologies. Thank you very much for your time and effort.

 

[Il Duce]

I'm not aware of any 35 series that regularly embed in an ODA - an ODA has a great deal of capability from every warfighting function, including intelligence - it's one of the reasons the 18-series is such a difficult job to assess into and complete the qualifications. There are a variety of intelligence functions that support SOF, probably the closest is SIGINT in SOT-A teams, which there are several threads on here.

I have to echo @AWP - if you want to be intel, be intel. If you want to be SOF, be SOF. After you're successful in one if you want to migrate over go ahead. 18 series is one of the toughest things to do out there - but there's no other job in the Army (and few outside it) that aren't going to look favorably on a long tab wanting to join their ranks.

 

[AWP]

I don't seem to understand this part. Anyone who attends a Service Academy has a mandatory service obligation at the end. I would of course try to spend that time back in SF (of whatever branch I was in). Being able to attend one of the Service Academies is an incredible opportunity, I feel it would be foolish to turn down such a chance. If anything, in my mind at least (which may be incorrrect), I look at like any other training school (say pathfinder or airborne or ranger or whatever have you) just... very extended. In any case if I return to the SF community and apply what I learn, how is it wrong?

- You are not guaranteed to return to SF. This board has numerous stories of prior SF and Ranger studs who couldn't become an SF officer. Your enlisted career doesn't matter once you become an officer (except for about 1% of the military, if that).
- The Army is burning dollars, time, and a training slot to make you an SF soldier, but within a few years you want to go elsewhere? Think about that and consider my point above. Look, your commander may sign off on your departure, I don't know, but there are many who won't precisely because you committed yourself to a huge investment and then bailed within a year or two. "You pays your money and you takes your chances." No plan survives first contact.
- You want to do this or that after you're a Ranger, SF, whatever. You need to worry about: obtaining a contract, making it through Basic, AIT, Jump School, RASP/SFAS, other schools, deployments...and you're planning on your 7th or 8th or 10th move? That's one way to do it.
- You want to set yourself up for success? Pick a job and be the best damn (insert MOS here) at it and then you'll be surprised at what doors open. Success breeds success, but remember that you can do everything right and still fail.

Good luck.

 

[Gurahiyi]

- You are not guaranteed to return to SF. This board has numerous stories of prior SF and Ranger studs who couldn't become an SF officer. Your enlisted career doesn't matter once you become an officer (except for about 1% of the military, if that).
- The Army is burning dollars, time, and a training slot to make you an SF soldier, but within a few years you want to go elsewhere? Think about that and consider my point above. Look, your commander may sign off on your departure, I don't know, but there are many who won't precisely because you committed yourself to a huge investment and then bailed within a year or two. "You pays your money and you takes your chances." No plan survives first contact.
- You want to do this or that after you're a Ranger, SF, whatever. You need to worry about: obtaining a contract, making it through Basic, AIT, Jump School, RASP/SFAS, other schools, deployments...and you're planning on your 7th or 8th or 10th move? That's one way to do it.
- You want to set yourself up for success? Pick a job and be the best damn (insert MOS here) at it and then you'll be surprised at what doors open. Success breeds success, but remember that you can do everything right and still fail.

Good luck.

I see your point now. I did not realize that it would be difficult to return to SF from an academy. Thank you for explaining. I will have to give that some thought.

 

[Gurahiyi]

@AWP I really would like to attend USMA, more than almost anything else. At the same time, I don't want to make a dick move. So here's what I'm thinking. I will take an 11X Option 4 (airborne, I believe) contract. Upon reach my first duty station, I begin applying to as many infantry schools as will take me (Ranger School, Pathfinder School, and Air Air Assault come to mind, but especially Ranger School). Using those schools as proving grounds, I begin applying to West Point. I'm hoping that between strong academics, strong PT, and those schools combined with high school leadership activities, I will make for an outstanding applicant to USMA. Then, upon graduating from there, I return and go to SF as an officer. Yes I realize how difficult getting into SF will be, you've made that abundantly clear. The only thing I can think of is where is there is a will, there is a way. I'm determined to get in and won't accept anything less. My questions would then be as follows.
(1) Would this path then make the move more acceptable and less of a betrayal.
(2) How hard would it be to get into Ranger School from 11X?
(3) Would I have to wait a period of time before command is willing to support sending me to those schools or could I go right away?

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Using those schools as proving grounds, I begin applying to West Point.

Do you have an "in" to The Point that we don't know about? The way you write would make one believe that your getting in is a foregone conclusion.

I'm guessing no, since just a few months ago you were all geared up to join The Corps and attend Annapolis.

U.S. Naval Academy and the Marine Corps

I remember being 18, the sky was the limit and I kept changing my mind about what to do with my life too. Bottom line, regardless of which service you choose to join, @AWP has already offered the best possible advice:

- You want to set yourself up for success? Pick a job and be the best damn (insert MOS here) at it and then you'll be surprised at what doors open. Success breeds success, but remember that you can do everything right and still fail.

 

[Gurahiyi]

Do you have an "in" to The Point that we don't know about? The way you write would make one believe that your getting in is a foregone conclusion.

I'm guessing no, since just a few months ago you were all geared up to join The Corps and attend Annapolis.

U.S. Naval Academy and the Marine Corps

I remember being 18, the sky was the limit and I kept changing my mind about what to do with my life too. Bottom line, regardless of which service you choose to join, @AWP has already offered the best possible advice:

Can't argue with that. Don't think the weight of reality has set in on me quite yet. I was accepted and planning on attending Baylor University this year with their ROTC program actually until I found out I'd still have to take on some 20k worth of debt each year, which is something I cannot do due to my not having a credit score, and my parents being unwilling to co-sign. The reason I actually changed from the Corp to Army is because I spoke to my father bout my plans. I wanted infantry, and I wanted Raider. He's actually rather well connected. A few days later, he told me to join him for a meeting and I was introduced to a few of his friends, a former Marine recruiter, and a former Marine Raider/Recon Marine who had recently changed their branch to work in the Army. I wasn't allowed to ask much about what they did or how the switch or whatnot, but was informed they now worked in some capacity (I'm not sure if they were PMCs or Active) with Army Special Forces both in the National Guard and regular army. Both offered to help me if I did indeed want to go to the Marines, and ran me through a mock pitch to see how I would respond to an actual recruiter. Following that and a lengthy conversation, they came to the conclusion that I should apply to the Academies. Further, albeit I think it was due to my Dad's instructions, both started telling stories about Marine Infantry. They also brought up several valid points, such as the difficulty to get into several schools I wanted to attend in the Army (Ranger school and Airborne) from the Corp. They wrapped it up with talking about poor healthcare from the Navy (no offense to all you Navy folk out there. Apparently the dentists messed them up quite a bit and they hold grudges) along with commenting on the Army having better equipment and programs.
Bottom line being, while I still personally prefer the Marine Corp just for personal preference, I had to agree the Army had more to offer me. Following that, coupled with my new found interest in USMA, I decided to start looking at options in the Army. I wouldn't exactly call it an "in", but via my dad I have since been introduced or put in contact with several individuals ranging from Army SF, National Guard Army SF, people in ROTC/Reserve programs, a current West Point instructor, and two former West Point instructors. He has offered to introduce me to a few others (someone from pararescue and a few more from the Army in various positions, mainly intel and recruiters). I'm hoping through their advice and recommendations I can secure a slot at USMA, along with my own merit I considered waiting and attending community college while going through the application process for a year or two, but I do not think my High School "profile" is quite enough to get me in. Academics are strong, and Leadership experience is notable (I just got back from spending a two months in the Philippines attending a leadership academy and providing humanitarian aid, for example), but I lack athletic activities (don't get me wrong, I am in excellent health and shape, I just never really got into any sports). So, rather than wait around working a dead end job, living at home, and what have you, hoping I get accepted and can leave in a year or two, I decided I'd be better off enlisting and going from there. I go in, and I either get accepted to an Academy, or else I don't, I fulfill my contract, and go to college elsewhere. Either way, my next four years at least are secure and the following years have potential.

 

[Red Flag 1]

I think the telling statement in all you have written is,"I'm hoping through their advice and recommendations I can secure a slot at USMA, along with my own merit I considered waiting and attending community college while going through the application process for a year or two, but I do not think my High School "profile" is quite enough to get me in.

When are you expecting to hear something?

 

[Gurahiyi]

I think the telling statement in all you have written is,"I'm hoping through their advice and recommendations I can secure a slot at USMA, along with my own merit I considered waiting and attending community college while going through the application process for a year or two, but I do not think my High School "profile" is quite enough to get me in.

When are you expecting to hear something?

Clarification: There was a typo in that section. There is a missing period between "merit" and "I".

I unfortunately did not apply this year due to timing. I was out of the country until early June, and had planned on attending Baylor until last week, when some financial documents came through and some funds did not. As I'm too late at this point in time to apply for the class of 2022, I will apply for 2023 and the subsequent years until I reach the age limit or am accepted. That would imply I start gather the information for my application now, and start the process when the application opens up in December. By the that point in time I should have completed Basic and AIT, and either be in a regular unit applying to specialty schools to bolster my application, or else be in the training pipeline for a SF unit, and thus, in consideration of what AWP has said regarding it being a dick move, will most likely not apply.

 

[Gurahiyi]

I would like to request for a moderator/staff to close this thread. My initial question about getting into SF from intel has been fully answered some time ago and we seem to have gotten rather off topic (largely my fault). In any case, I would like to thank everyone for their input, particularly @AWP , your advice to just become the best at whatever MOS I choose, as well as the view on attending USMA and the information on the difficulty of getting back into SF as officer, is incredibly helpful.