Income Inequality in America

Also, I think a lot of the outrage by those who are upset by the income gap in this country, isn't just directed at the CEO's pulling in millions; they are also looking at the Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburgs out there who are pulling in billions and billions of dollars. Those are what I would consider "true" 1%ers as far as money goes. It doesn't matter what their "salary" is, they make all their money off of dividends and investments - something literally anyone in the country can take part in.

"If you nail two pieces of wood together in a way that no one else has ever done, some schmuck will buy it" - George Carlin

As much as I hate Facebook, and wish their IPO had tanked, based on the above quote, I don't begrudge Zuckerburg the money he has made.
 
The Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburgs out there who are raking in billions; deserve it because of what they created and contributed to the world. Entrepreneurs deserve every cent they earned. CEOs usually busted their asses to get to where they are. Their job is to make a company more profitable. If they succeed in that, they deserve the money they get their way. NFL playerss make millions and millions, do I think they should? I don't care. As long as America keeps watching, keeps paying $150 for nosebleed tickets, keeps buying NFL shirts, then they shouldn't be bitching about what players make.

Poor people logic: "Hey Mark, Thanks for that free FaceBook thing that we all use around the globe to keep in touch throughout the day. Here's your $200k a year check because we think $40 billion is way too much for you".

No CEO salary or an inventors dividend or pay out will ever bother me. No matter how belligerently large it is. Even if the shitty CEOs out there who are raking in millions for not doing much, well those millions came from consumer purchases. If you don't like it, stop buying it.

I legitimately hate the consistent poor who blame others for their "bad luck". And I frankly don't care if they die poor.

This is America, go fucking better yourself.
 
The Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburgs out there who are raking in billions; deserve it because of what they created and contributed to the world. Entrepreneurs deserve every cent they earned. CEOs usually busted their asses to get to where they are. Their job is to make a company more profitable. If they succeed in that, they deserve the money they get their way. NFL playerss make millions and millions, do I think they should? I don't care. As long as America keeps watching, keeps paying $150 for nosebleed tickets, keeps buying NFL shirts, then they shouldn't be bitching about what players make.

Poor people logic: "Hey Mark, Thanks for that free FaceBook thing that we all use around the globe to keep in touch throughout the day. Here's your $200k a year check because we think $40 billion is way too much for you".

No CEO salary or an inventors dividend or pay out will ever bother me. No matter how belligerently large it is. Even if the shitty CEOs out there who are raking in millions for not doing much, well those millions came from consumer purchases. If you don't like it, stop buying it.

I legitimately hate the consistent poor who blame others for their "bad luck". And I frankly don't care if they die poor.

This is America, go fucking better yourself.

I agree so hard it's not even funny
 
You could have a very long and detailed response to this question. Is their income equality, obviously yes and any statical look at wages will show you that.
inequality-p25_averagehouseholdincom.png

The second picture is the most disturbing and that doesn't even contain the crash. People wonder why so many people collect food stamps. Just look at the next graph.
median_household_income.gif


I think another part of this discussion has to be about income mobility. Meaning whats your chance to live the American dream.


incomemobility.jpg

I thought this was a interesting illustration. The oil fields in North Dakota has the best opportunity to chase the American dream.

I just think we should be careful when we label people. Being poor doesn't make you lazy, though a lot of poor people are. Not everyone is equal and have the same abilities and there is plenty of people who are poor and out working their asses off and because of their situation they may never escape the situation they are in.
 
View attachment 9518

I thought this was a interesting illustration. The oil fields in North Dakota has the best opportunity to chase the American dream.

I think it's fucking awesome that we live in a country where someone has even a 1% chance of moving from the bottom fifth of the income bracket to the top fifth. What other society in history has ever given their progeny that opportunity? We can talk all the shit we want, but knowing that my children have the opportunity to be better (educated, housed, employed, etc) off than I am blows me away. How many generations have passed where a father knew his kids weren't going to be better off than he was?

I'd be interested to see the numbers that show upward mobility in general; moving up one level a generation...
 
You could have a very long and detailed response to this question. Is their income equality, obviously yes and any statical look at wages will show you that.
View attachment 9519

The second picture is the most disturbing and that doesn't even contain the crash. People wonder why so many people collect food stamps. Just look at the next graph.
View attachment 9520


I think another part of this discussion has to be about income mobility. Meaning whats your chance to live the American dream.


View attachment 9518

I thought this was a interesting illustration. The oil fields in North Dakota has the best opportunity to chase the American dream.

I just think we should be careful when we label people. Being poor doesn't make you lazy, though a lot of poor people are. Not everyone is equal and have the same abilities and there is plenty of people who are poor and out working their asses off and because of their situation they may never escape the situation they are in.
Too bad the data cuts off in 2007, would like to see it run out to 2011.
 
I agree so hard it's not even funny
x3.

It's all about risk and reward. If someone is willing to take the risk (ie they put in their work*), they get to reap the rewards. Conversely, no risk, no reward. Pretty simple. That's a core concept to our country....the Pursuit of Happiness, etc.

* also note, not all work is equal nor should it be necessarily. Speaking purely from an income perspective, what is ones work worth? Simplistic answer: Whatever someone else is willing to pay them.
 
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The Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburgs out there who are raking in billions; deserve it because of what they created and contributed to the world. Entrepreneurs deserve every cent they earned. CEOs usually busted their asses to get to where they are. Their job is to make a company more profitable. If they succeed in that, they deserve the money they get their way. NFL playerss make millions and millions, do I think they should? I don't care. As long as America keeps watching, keeps paying $150 for nosebleed tickets, keeps buying NFL shirts, then they shouldn't be bitching about what players make.

Poor people logic: "Hey Mark, Thanks for that free FaceBook thing that we all use around the globe to keep in touch throughout the day. Here's your $200k a year check because we think $40 billion is way too much for you".

No CEO salary or an inventors dividend or pay out will ever bother me. No matter how belligerently large it is. Even if the shitty CEOs out there who are raking in millions for not doing much, well those millions came from consumer purchases. If you don't like it, stop buying it.

I legitimately hate the consistent poor who blame others for their "bad luck". And I frankly don't care if they die poor.

This is America, go fucking better yourself.

These guys also donate a fuck ton of money to a variety of causes.

It is probable safe to say that many successful folks on here are successful because of mobility, in that when you got out of the military you didn't return to your shithole home town and go back to what you were doing prior to enlisting. I know tons of people, friends and family, who still live where they were born, make a mediocre living and bitch about it constantly.

Since ETSing, I have gone where the work is and am finally ready to stop moving.
 
To tie an earlier discussion(s) we've had about successful people: folks that reach the top of their game usually are narcissistic douchebags. Look at many athletes, Steve Jobs, actors, etc. Success isn't a simple "work hard" mentality, it often involves doing it on the backs of others. Charts and graphs don't show that.

When you look at someone with money, you're only seeing a small portion of their journey. Intelligence and a work ethic often aren't enough.
 
It comes down to hard work (how you define that). Hard work can me sleeping 4 hours a day and working 16 (Trump). Hard work can mean taking risks (anyone who started a company and is worth millions/billions). Hard work can mean training your mind to be an expert in your field (Buffet). Hard work can me the work ethic and discipline to do what you have you; when you don't want to.

The best example to me is Arnold. A second example would be Steve Jobs. A third would be Buffet and a fourth would be Paul Tudor Jones.
 
The Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburgs out there who are raking in billions; deserve it because of what they created and contributed to the world. Entrepreneurs deserve every cent they earned. CEOs usually busted their asses to get to where they are. Their job is to make a company more profitable. If they succeed in that, they deserve the money they get their way. NFL playerss make millions and millions, do I think they should? I don't care. As long as America keeps watching, keeps paying $150 for nosebleed tickets, keeps buying NFL shirts, then they shouldn't be bitching about what players make.

Poor people logic: "Hey Mark, Thanks for that free FaceBook thing that we all use around the globe to keep in touch throughout the day. Here's your $200k a year check because we think $40 billion is way too much for you".

No CEO salary or an inventors dividend or pay out will ever bother me. No matter how belligerently large it is. Even if the shitty CEOs out there who are raking in millions for not doing much, well those millions came from consumer purchases. If you don't like it, stop buying it.

I legitimately hate the consistent poor who blame others for their "bad luck". And I frankly don't care if they die poor.

This is America, go fucking better yourself.


Nobody chiming in with they "didn't build that"? Talk about group think!
 
No point. Instead of listening to the entire speech and taking in its message (we all get help along the way), people just listened to a 2-second sound bite and decided to RABBLE RABBLE about that.

Edit: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/31/politics/fact-check-built-this/

I did listen to the entire speech and I did do research on Elizabeth Warren (whose statements the president based his speech on), and I think she is a complete whacko. 1/16th Cherokee anyone? Also, as far as POTUS's speech in VA, I disagree with his entire premise, not just the one sound byte.
 
No point. Instead of listening to the entire speech and taking in its message (we all get help along the way), people just listened to a 2-second sound bite and decided to RABBLE RABBLE about that.

Edit: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/31/politics/fact-check-built-this/

What? You do realize that phrase is referring to the entire socialist speech vice just the phrase itself?

"If you've got a business -- you didn't build that," he continued. "Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the internet. "

If his logic one would be able to reverse the "idea":

Poor & uneducated people exist in their current state/status because they someone did something to them.

I disagree. I believe we're all in our current status due to choices we made (to include preparations to strike at opportunity) somewhere down the line.
 
Made me think of Lance Armstrong.

Not to get off track, but what Lance did was/is a crying shame. I knew his grandparents on his father's side. I can't help but think how disappointed they would have been. His grandfather told me that when Lance was young, he told him, "I just want to be the best cyclist in the world..."

OK, back on topic. Sorry for the detour.
 
I think the sound bite is in fact enough. Not in all cases, but definitely in this particular instance. It was definitely enough by itself to recoil in disgust. Who would ever have imagined a sitting US President to ever even utter such words? This is the land of opportunity. Anyone who has ever labored and struggled to make a small business work- who has known the trials, the hardship, the string of worthless douchebag employees you run into who would never take any personal ownership in their employer's endeavor - or share in the problems, managing debt, family stress, disciplined self-deprivation, extreme and constant risk of dumping your own money- emptying every dollar of your savings- into the business to keep it alive until it finally grows and ultimately sustains you... anyone who's been through that and labored until late into the night sometimes for years on end would tell you"yes, I fucking built that; I funded it, nurtured it, believed in it, pushed it, grew it, and ultimately I am responsible for it's present success."

Saying everyone is responsible for the success of my business is like a leather- handed farmer saying Jesus grew his corn crops because it wouldn't happen without the sun and the rain.
 
I think the sound bite is in fact enough. Not in all cases, but definitely in this particular instance. It was definitely enough by itself to recoil in disgust.

I'll admit that it was a VERY poor choice of words on the President's part, but again, you're missing the point of the speech. He wasn't literally saying that nothing you did mattered in the creation of your business. He was merely saying that you should pause for a second and reflect on the investments that were made, not only in you, but in the infrastructure surrounding your business, and be thankful for them. Could you have gotten where you are in life without proper schooling? Probably not. If you grew up in a poor area where your school system received pennies for funding, would you be as successful as you are now? Maybe, maybe not. What would've happened if that teacher or mentor had never inspired you to join the Army or Marine Corps or whatever. Would you be in the same place you are today? THOSE were the types of messages I took away from the speech. That's not to say that there is no individualistic determination in the process. Far from it. People have free will to make choices. But certain situations, institutions, or people can give you a leg up in the process. If you've ever accepted a small business grant, that's a part of it. That football coach who pushed you to run wind sprints until you puked? He's part of the reason that you're in the NFL now.

Personally, I've benefited a ton from people and institutions that were in place to help me. My high school received a $30 million renovation right when I got there. My Dad encouraged me to enlist when I was 18. When my window for re-enlistment came up, it just so happened to be a year where bonuses were becoming astronomical, and because I did it whilst in Iraq I got to keep all of it. The fact that a member of this very board clued me into the Warrior Scholar Program got me to attend, which in turn helped my essay writing TREMENDOUSLY and is a large part of the reason I got into Columbia. I realize that it took a lot of work on my part to get here. But I also realize that were it not for the things I mentioned, I'd probably still be in my crappy little hometown, fat and depressed. And goddamnit, I'm thankful for that! I am by no means a great success (especially not compared to some posters on here), but considering the alternatives, I'm doing okay.

If his logic one would be able to reverse the "idea":

Poor & uneducated people exist in their current state/status because they someone did something to them.

I disagree. I believe we're all in our current status due to choices we made (to include preparations to strike at opportunity) somewhere down the line.

Contemporary sociology agrees, for the most part, with your flipped logic. Well, not entirely. The general agreement is that social problems (such as poverty) are due to a complex set of factors that you can't just boil down to individual choices. Choices factor into it, but that's not the whole picture. They claim that there ARE institutions (both social and structural) that re-enforce poverty. A few I can think of: corporate influence on congress (the weak and poor can't lobby for themselves), movement and mechanization of low-skill jobs, lack of funding for education in poor areas, the poverty culture, single-parent households, high cost of healthcare, and a few others. On the other hand, there are some institutions that work to break people out of the poverty cycle. A few examples: magnet and charter schools, work and skill-building programs (such as those in community colleges), Medicaid (which attempts to deal with the aforementioned costs of healthcare), church charities, a progressive tax system, and things like Habitat for Humanity (although that's arguably a church charity).

I don't want to derail the thread any more so I'll leave it at that.
 
Not to get off track, but what Lance did was/is a crying shame. I knew his grandparents on his father's side. I can't help but think how disappointed they would have been. His grandfather told me that when Lance was young, he told him, "I just want to be the best cyclist in the world..."

OK, back on topic. Sorry for the detour.
Totally agreed. Lance was a hero for a lot of us, even my Dad. Dad decided to take up cycling in his mid-50's, despite never being particularly active in his entire life, just because he admired Lance Armstrong so much. It really was a shame when we found out that he was a cheat.
 
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