Income Inequality in America

Here is a good prompt for the conversation:

Has anyone ever felt that it was impossible or near impossible to make more money than you currently make or to "move up" in the world? This kind of plays into the mobility chart posted above.

No, but I am 28. I would imagine age could potentially skew the distribution so it might be beneficial to note age as well. It could also give you more insight into individuals "want" to work. Hope that last sentence makes sense, feel I am explaining it poorly.
 
Here is a good prompt for the conversation:

Has anyone ever felt that it was impossible or near impossible to make more money than you currently make or to "move up" in the world? This kind of plays into the mobility chart posted above.

Fuck no. Well, maybe in Russia but that's different. Regardless of any social status, income level, race, religion, creed, or even birthplace, ANYONE can improve their financial well being IF they want it bad enough.

The same internal drive, discipline, and dedication to a cause is required to be:

a member of SOF
a good parent
a stand up citizen
educated
climb the social ladder

"The Man" keeping you down & in the poor house? Perhaps some self reflection and acceptance of personal responsibility would be in order.

We all make choices.
 
Here is a good prompt for the conversation:

Has anyone ever felt that it was impossible or near impossible to make more money than you currently make or to "move up" in the world? This kind of plays into the mobility chart posted above.

Never. It used to irk me when seniors talked about living on a "fixed income" even though they received increases in their monthly pensions, social security, investment income, etc. A fixed income is what my husband had working for the same company for 10 years because raises were frozen. But because I ran my own business, I always told him, "Babe, if you need money for something or want something you think we can't afford, tell me. I'll go beat the bushes and find another client. My income is dependent on how much I want to work and I like it that way." He got used to that and decided he wanted to make some side money as well. He did some consulting for my company and had a little hobby called "poker" that paid for many a family treat.

I once told a chauffeur there were many easier ways to make $2000 than selling drugs. He looked at me like I was crazy. When I explained how we didn't always depend on an employer for income, he was silent. He seemed like a smart guy and I hope he has since opened his own business.
 
We all make choices.

I'm going to play a bit of devils advocate...

Yes we all make choices but what choices are we confronted with. The choices I was confronted with as a an adolescent were much different than a kid in downtown Baltimore. Is that that kids fault? No. Not at all, there are kids in this country that are unable to climb the ladder because their choices aren't the same, it isn't do good in school or you don't get to play sports, it is go to class or support the family, it is don't eat or sell drugs. Tat is the plight of some folks in America. And that is not equality from the onset.
 
Cback, I cannot reply as to the inner city kid situation (that is just a whole 'norther can of worms), but as to the aspect of a kid from a very small rural area growing up to be successful in an industry dominated by males earning 6-8 figures without breaking a sweat.

Maybe I was a little too naive to be intimidated at the outset, but is started out at the bottom, working my way up, and not to say it was easy, but I never felt hampered by anything other than my own drive or desires. I earned a reputation as a fixer and a problem solver, and along the way, gathered more knowledge to break off into another direction if I chose to do so.

My parents were well meaning and loving, but my dad would have been happy for me to choose to settle down, be a wife and mother, etc., rather than choose the path I did. Too many young kids were married right out of high school, or got knocked up and had to get married. I wanted more out of life, to experience different things, and chose the field I did so that I could get there.

So, yes, life isn't always fair and sometimes kids are really dealt a crap hand of cards, but, for now at least, we still live in a country where you can improve your lot in life with some grit and determination.
 
I think we can all agree that all people weren't created with equal ability. People have different intellectual and physical capabilities. People grow up in much different circumstance which will greatly impact their adult lives. We also have people who by their own actions and inability to accept responsibility for those decisions are given the lot in life they chose.

We also have to be concerned that 80% of our countries citizens economic outlook has been declining over the last 3 decades and that points to a much bigger issues than just personal initiative. Consumer activity drives 75% of our economy and if 80% of the consumers are moving backwards, it doesn't take a math major or economist to understand the overall impact that trend will have on our country's long term outlook.
 
So what's the plan to make everything fair? How's that work? And when the field is level and everyone is in the same place will that be because the low achievers will have been brought up and imbued with a sudden sense of responsibility, integrity and excellence of conduct? Or will that leveling be reached simply because the high achievers will have been-as is so often the case- brought down and held back?

We already see the latter happening in our society. Football teams in high school that are far superior to a given rival are demonized when they run up a score of 56-0. Shame on them when they continue to score all the way to the end of the 4th quarter! Wealth distribution by taxation scoops a far greater percentage of earnings from the successful and uses it to pay for single moms with 7 kids (and climbing) who have no intention to stop procreating since each additional child will make momma eligible for a few hundred bucks per month in additional giveaway government money. It goes to pay for Obama phones and debit cards which can be swapped for cash or cigarettes or more dope... and thousands of other free-money-for-slackers programs. Not that I think there are plenty of legitimate instances of perfectly fine welfare and public assistance claims because many undoubtedly are. Perhaps even the majority of people on welfare are there legitimately and are merely in a difficult but temporary state until they can sustain themselves. Some might even say it's generous to assume that most welfare recipients are there legitimately but for the sake of argument let's say that 9 out of 10 are accepting help for legit reasons. That's still 1 in 10 - millions of others- who are lazy and always will be. When I was younger and a bit more idealistic, I would find homeless bums with their signs and offer them jobs (along with meals and a few times even free sets of clothes). Despite dozens of (what I felt were generous) offers over a span of months, I had not a single taker. Some people are just flat lazy moochers and wouldn't work a day in their lives so long as there are kind hearted people and government programs to take care of them.
 
I'll chime in from personal experience of working to help two friends start successful businesses, mid level management of a multi million dollar company and several small business attempts that I have made myself.

@SOWT, was spot on with his post regarding greed at the executive levels. Any time you have share holders, or a multi partnership of a profitable company, regardless of several hundred, thousands, millions, or even billions, the overall focus is to make more profit for the partnership or shareholders. It's not to improve the worker bees quality of life through better working conditions or better income. The employee is a liability to the over gains in profit, either it be with benefit packages, increased salary (reduced profits) or in regulatory issues. This is why many jobs become sub-contract, or why many companies will look to staffing (temp workers) and many cases pay a slightly higher cost for that temp but avoid the liability and long term costs. That is just how it works in big business.

Now there are the exceptions of large private companies, family owned, ground up owners, who do tend to take much better care of their employees, or have a sense of loyalty to the employee. But this is not the normal and very rare.

Small business tends to be different, normally very few employees, with much smaller profits, and where the profits must be shared at all levels, or people don't show up to work b/c the can't buy gas or afford the cost to actually show up. Small business employees normally have to work harder, do more with less and be conservative in all aspects, as the profits/capital is not there to absorb extra costs, etc.

Generally once small businesses grow into high profit, or sustainable companies, it becomes the employees who struggled to get the company going who benefit and receive the better salary/benefit package. Or the company gets sold or divided into a shareholder run corporation. Where the original employees who did the suffering, suffer more b/c generally they are training their replacement and on the way out the door.

Greed and too much focus on profit, is IMO, a major problem.

However, I've also had three different businesses I've started up that did not do so hot, I was more focused on being fair to people who worked for/with me. I was too busy bending over to meet everyone else (other companies, service providers, and customers). I think that greatly affected the out come of two business attempts.

So I do think there is and should be a common ground, meet in the middle approach to big and small business. But I also think for that to happen, and for me equality in salary break down, you can't be on the bottom bitching to the top. You have to make it to the top, and remember being the little guy, not become the greedy "it's my turn to get mine" kind of guy.

However, most likely if you take that approach, you won't be there very long, as the group signing off on your check, will probably not buy off on that, and will be greedy and want the profits. As they should, b/c at the end of the day, profits is what business is all about...
 
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I'll chime in from personal experience of working to help two friends start successful businesses, mid level management of a multi million dollar company and several small business attempts that I have made myself.

@SOWT, was spot on with his post regarding greed at the executive levels. Any time you have share holders, or a multi partnership of a profitable company, regardless of several hundred, thousands, millions, or even billions, the overall focus is to make more profit for the partnership or shareholders. It's not to improve the worker bees quality of life through better working conditions or better income. The employee is a liability to the over gains in profit, either it be with benefit packages, increased salary (reduced profits) or in regulatory issues. This is why many jobs become sub-contract, or why many companies will look to staffing (temp workers) and many cases pay a slightly higher cost for that temp but avoid the liability and long term costs. That is just how it works in big business.

Now there are the exceptions of large private companies, family owned, ground up owners, who do tend to take much better care of their employees, or have a sense of loyalty to the employee. But this is not the normal and very rare.

Small business tends to be different, normally very few employees, with much smaller profits, and where the profits must be shared at all levels, or people don't show up to work b/c the can't buy gas or afford the cost to actually show up. Small business employees normally have to work harder, do more with less and be conservative in all aspects, as the profits/capital is not there to absorb extra costs, etc.

Generally once small businesses grow into high profit, or sustainable companies, it becomes the employees who struggled to get the company going who benefit and receive the better salary/benefit package. Or the company gets sold or divided into a shareholder run corporation. Where the original employees who did the suffering, suffer more b/c generally they are training their replacement and on the way out the door.

Greed and too much focus on profit, is IMO, a major problem.

However, I've also had three different businesses I've started up that did not do so hot, I was more focused on being fair to people who worked for/with me. I was too busy bending over to meet everyone else (other companies, service providers, and customers). I think that greatly affected the out come of two business attempts.

So I do think there is and should be a common ground, meet in the middle approach to big and small business. But I also think for that to happen, Andrea for me equality in salary break down, you can't be on the bottom bitching to the top. You have to make it to the top, and remember being the little guy, not become the greedy "it's my turn to get mine" kind of guy.

However, most likely if you take that approach, you won't be there very long, as the group signing off on your check, will probably not buy off on that, and will be greedy and want the profits. As they should, b/c at the end of the day, profits is what business is all about...

Have you had experience working on/with a tech startup? Not looking for advice, just curious as to your thoughts/experience on business as they pertain to the fact that many tech startups, given that they start as small businesses, but often have very unconventional and/or non-conservative practices.
 
Have you had experience working on/with a tech startup? Not looking for advice, just curious as to your thoughts/experience on business as they pertain to the fact that many tech startups, given that they start as small businesses, but often have very unconventional and/or non-conservative practices.

No I've not been involved in technical support. Looking at Google & apple, I see where there approach has been different or unconventional, and I can see how that can contribute to there success. But I don't think it is a good business model for everything. I really don't know a lot about technical support and development. So at best I would say you have to see who is successful and why, and than see how that fits into your personal business, etc.
 
Apple is definitely NOT known for treating their employees well. Google on the other hand... pretty sweet gig if you can get in. But what you have to understand about that is they know that their company runs off of employee innovation. If you don't set the environment right for innovation, you go the way of AOL or Yahoo.
 
Have you had experience working on/with a tech startup? Not looking for advice, just curious as to your thoughts/experience on business as they pertain to the fact that many tech startups, given that they start as small businesses, but often have very unconventional and/or non-conservative practices.

Keep in mind, the "unconventional" practices are exactly why so many tech start ups fail. They get a shit-ton of VC funding, go out and buy their hipster office space, go and buy their ultra modern conference tables and sweet office chairs and flat screen TV's. A year later after their idea fell flat or never really took off... all that shit is getting auctioned off. Don't get me wrong, some obviously make it to the big time, but that the vast majority do not.
 
Yeah I don't much about apple or Google, but have seen some media on different practices they use, and will say for some of the world changing technological advancement they have made, is simply amazing. In those environments, I can see where it is important to break the molds of normal business practice and inspire innovation, etc.
 
Don't worry, I know - I've done a decent bit of research on tech startups, and yeah, a LOT of them disappear. This isn't always to say they fail, as it is also pretty common for one company to effectively have its employees hired away by a more established startup doing a similar project, or to get bought up/combined with other startups due to friends/business.

However, while I have seen people try to start them, occasionally actually start them, and have heard and read a lot about them, I don't have personal experience with the internal business aspects other than what can be read. Just noticed JAB's experience with such things in other industries, and figured I would ask about it.
 
I'm going to play a bit of devils advocate...

Yes we all make choices but what choices are we confronted with. The choices I was confronted with as a an adolescent were much different than a kid in downtown Baltimore. Is that that kids fault? No. Not at all, there are kids in this country that are unable to climb the ladder because their choices aren't the same, it isn't do good in school or you don't get to play sports, it is go to class or support the family, it is don't eat or sell drugs. Tat is the plight of some folks in America. And that is not equality from the onset.

Disagree. The choice is take the easy way out and sell drugs or man up and do what is right. Same exact thought process when confronted with what to do with OPFUND when nobody is looking...or tracking it.

"Rags to riches" are harolded the same as valor under fire just by different social classes.
 
So what's the plan to make everything fair? How's that work? And when the field is level and everyone is in the same place will that be because the low achievers will have been brought up and imbued with a sudden sense of responsibility, integrity and excellence of conduct? Or will that leveling be reached simply because the high achievers will have been-as is so often the case- brought down and held back?

Read Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut. It lays out the whole plan...
 
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