Is the United States heading for Martial Law?

Diamondback 2/2

Diamondback 2/2

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I think with the amount of doomsday prophecies and political and economic climate within the United States. That it is about time we have an honest discussion about the possibilities of civil unrest and martial law within the United States and the North American region (I think we can agree Mexico is already and has been for sometime there with the current drug cartel problems).

Now “modern conflict” may not be the best forum for this thread, but I do think this discussion falls into modern conflict, although it is a political conflict at this point. Mods feel free to trump me and move it elsewhere if you see fit.

Lt General Boykin, is well known as being very controversial in his current status as a speaker on religion and politics. I do not share all of his religious beliefs and how they apply to the United States as a country. We are a nation of many religions and Christianity is not the only one. That said, I do share some of his beliefs that this countries has been and is under attack by Marxist groups, attempting to collapse the current Republic/Democratic government form we use. I believe he has made some great points in the past and I do feel he is making a good point in regards to civil unrest and feasibly resulting in martial law, due to economic collapse.

So with that, what do the rest have to say about the subject and his comments in this video?

 
The problem is the Socialists/Marxists haven't taken Islam into account.

Eventually some sort of armed resistence will form, and the chaos of those years could allow criminal/Islamic gangs to become the "government", yet the touchy-feely crowd hasn't clued in to that fact yet.
 
JAB said:
I do not share all of his religious beliefs and how they apply to the United States as a country. We are a nation of many religions and Christianity is not the only one.
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I haven't heard everything Boykin has said, but I think it would be a misrepresentation to suggest that Boykin views the US as a single religion country. Rather, everything I've heard him say with regard to religion has related back to the historical fact that the philosophical foundations of Founding Fathers were clearly stated and based upon Judeo/Christian ethics. It's currently not PC to bring up such facts, and as such, I've greatly admire Boykin for not mincing his words - and I'm not a Christian.

Similarly; Boykin's greatest crime seems to be that he has not minced his words about our being in a war with Islam instead of the PC definition of "Muslim Extremists". I can only say that after living with Muslims and decades of reading and discussions, I've yet to find a cogent definition of what determines a Muslim to distinctly be an 'extremist'. So while Boykin will never be a poster boy at the State Department, his credibility factors are more than fine by me.

Therefore on the issue of martial law; I would listen to what Boykin has to say. Arguably, we may find ourselves living in one of the most vulnerable and fragile societies in history. The lists of possible causes for martial law and the lists of enemies (both foreign and domestic) who would like to see chaos break out inside the US, would seem almost endless. I need only witness my government suddenly buying enough ammunition to fight a civil war, to know that there are significant chances of challenging times coming on the horizon. And only an ignorant fool could continue to blindly believe that; "it can't happen here".
 
I am a Christian and I agree that we are at war with Islam. However, it’s not just a PC issue in this country. Misrepresentation of our founding documents and out of context opinions on our founding fathers is something I do take issue with. I have heard many speeches from Lt Gen Boykin, and although I respect the man, he tends to muddy the waters in separation of church and state (i.e. government).

That said, I will say that possibly I am misunderstanding his stance, therefore possibly could be misrepresenting his message, etc. If that is the case, I do apologize. I will also state that those comments were not relevant to the primary question being asked (i.e. is the United States heading for Martial Law).

That all said, I am still very interested in reading the general thoughts and any supporting information.
 
Why was OWS mentioned in with those other groups? Had me confused....

After I watched the video it seemed they just wanted people to appeal to authority and be afraid. Granted this was only like a 5 minute clip so I don't want to go too deep into it. Just seemed like fear mongering to me....
 
I couldn't get the video to work, it might just be this computer though.

It's just as well, I stopped paying attention to Boykin after he sold out and got PNG'd from the community.
 
The problem with any of Boykin's messages is in the messenger himself. No matter how right or wrong he may be, his past will checker his conclusions.

With that said, the interview sounded like the opening to an episode of a Prepper show. I kept waiting on the host/ fear-mongerer to ask the General to show him his plans for reusing animal fat and cooking lard as fuel for a hot air balloon or something.

I'm a pessimist and even the perfect storm discussed by those two is unlikely to me. As much as I detest the current CINC, the casual mention of "Hey, if you are friends with these radical groups and need to declare martial law to further your plans, so much the better for you Mr. Barack bin Laden" just sounded...a but much. Even if they are correct, let's say the President is about to speed dial a few riots to further his plans for an American Caliphate or whatever, even my darkened, pessimistic heart doesn't see our Mil rolling over and saying, "Oath of office? Lollz!" and wiping their asses with the Constitution.

"All enemies, foreign and domestic"
 
Freefalling said:
even my darkened, pessimistic heart doesn't see our Mil rolling over and saying, "Oath of office? Lollz!" and wiping their asses with the Constitution. "All enemies, foreign and domestic"
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I totally agree. Though some may need to be reminded that the oath to defend is sworn to the Constitution not any one person. (made for an interesting plot point in one of my author friend's novel)
 
Okay LTG Boykin and the video was probably the wrong start for this thread. That said, moving on past it, here is the general concerns.

I’m not really convinced that POTUS or our current government has much control over the economic turmoil we could potentially be facing as a country. They may be able to prolong the issue’s (i.e. pass the buck a little longer) but at some point it’s going to come to a head.

My personal opinion is that we are going to see an economic collapse, more so the collapse of the current world currency (the US Dollar). I believe when that happens, it’s going to make the great depression look very small in comparison. I do believe that civil unrest will be inevitable, historically speaking, major civil unrest has always come during economic collapse. The problem that I am really seeing, however, is that our nation has become accustom to a very lavish life style. Even our poverty class citizens are accustom to much more than any other poverty class in the history of the world.

So my primary concern in this type of event is that civil authority will be challenged on a scale unseen in our own history. What happens if that takes place? What happens when we have a major revolt against the civil authority? The plan for the last 60+ years has been Martial Law, through use of Military and other government agencies. If that is the response, my other concern is how far are we actually away from something like this taking place? How will that effect the population as a whole?

How close are we to an economic collapse?
If the dollar collapsed tomorrow, how long would it take for all the ducks to fall in a row to facilitate something like civil unrest, martial law, etc, happening?
How will that effect the population as a whole?

This could bring a major domino effect on our nation IMHO. Looking at the old USSR, when they collapsed, their union was broken apart. With current talks of succession in different states (and I think it is total bullshit that it is even being discussed), to include in my home state of Texas. Could the potential break up of our union be feasible? If so, how would that play out with a current civil unrest, could we see states attempt to reject federal Martial Law and attempt to go it alone?

I know a lot of this is “crazy” to think about/debate, but I do believe worth it.
 
JAB, you bring up some good points and I agree it's worth discussing.

I think anything is possible politically, including the breakup of our country into smaller states. But I don't think it can, or will, happen soon. Probably not even within our lifetimes. Right now, the country is so heterogeneous that I don't think any one group will be strong enough to break away. There is the Texas independence movement, there's the Reconquista out west, and the "South shall rise again!" crowd, but right now enough people are content enough that even with a major economic collapse, I don't think enough people will think that they would be better off on their own to have a meaningful separatist movement. I don't think it's feasible. And I certainly hope it doesn't happen.

However, I can easily see a situation in which martial law might be imposed. If there is another wide-ranging, long-duration economic downturn, enough people are going to be pissed off enough to start trying to do something- anything- to express their rage and to force people to do something about it. People keep pointing at the right wing of the spectrum and at the military types in particular, but I think that it's much more likely that riots, etc., would be from the opposite side. It would be messy and bloody either way, for sure.
 
I think a collapse is (from a numbers standpoint) literally inevitable. Just looking at revenue and expenditures, some kind of a crisis is guaranteed. And the martial law won't be declared until several days after some kind of economic calamity, when ATM machines are switched off, food stamp debit cards stop working and fuel for food distribution trucking companies can no longer be obtained. Once trucks stop delivery, food will instantly become scarce and people will take to the streets.

The single leg that supports our entire society- like the last weight supporting block in a Jenga game- is fuel. When that goes, the whole system is in jeopardy.
 
JBS,

Although I agree no fuel at the pump would shut down pretty much 90% of the world today, I tend to wonder how likely that scenario really could be. Being that the Oil Corp’s depend on their product being sold in high volume, it seems a bit unlikely to me that the pump would simply dry up. However, I could see fuel prices increasing 10 fold, leaving most of your average commuters in a major bind and driving food prices through the roof.

I do agree that financial collapse is inevitable in our current system; hell just looking at the old American Silver Dollar being worth $40+ is frightening in itself. I get really annoyed with people that claim “precious metals just keep increasing in value” but totally negate the fact that it’s our currency (the dollar) that keeps losing value. You can only play the printing game for so long before it has to self correct.

Mara,

I tend to think we’re going to see a major financial/economical collapse it in this life time, more so I think it’s already taking place. The stimulus IMHO was nothing more than a band aid on something that was set in place 50+ years ago. Most economist are stating they expect a major economic plunge within the next 10 years, and although they give hope in the thought of taking corrective actions now could reduce its length and effect. I doubt our government can come together enough to accomplish such hopeful outcomes.

I do agree that any possible breakup of the union would be catastrophic not only to the US but to the state’s that attempted to do so. I also hope these movements never get off the ground and that people are smart enough to understand that what has made us great for the last 100+ years has been due to that union. But it still has me very concerned.

As for the martial law, I do think it is more than likely to happen and I honestly believe it hinges on this current Congress and POTUS and how they deal with the current budgeting issues. I don’t see people losing jobs, paying more taxes, paying for health coverage or paying fines, while their savings continues to become worth, less and less, all while remaining civil. I think the union demonstrators in Michigan showed a quick glimpse into how the American people are pretty well fed up with everything. If this country does not become united politically real quickly, I think we are going to move to civil unrest in warp speeds.
 
After the great depression we had food lines and massive population upheavel and homelessness. In the 70's we had massive gas shortages and the American people didn't riot. I believe the American public can rise above any adversity.

We may see an economic collapse but I think before that happens the partisanship will change. IMHO the likely outcome of the current disfunctional government, it will come to the point in the next 3 or 4 election cycles were the American public will vote for one party or the other in such large numbers there will be a demand to run one agenda or another because the current system is so broken.

The losing party will have to adapt or become extinct.
 
This is just in Omaha during the Great Depression.

Riots and civil unrest in Omaha during the Great Depression chronological order
Aug 1933-
Seeking to increase prices paid for farm produce farmers blockaded roads into Omaha. For three nights picketers clashed with police, including one incident where 1,000 bystanders watched as forty deputies were pelted with logs and rocks as they led farm trucks through a picket line blocking Dodge Street.[47]

1933-
Farmers tried to drive home the impact of the Great Depression on their operations in the Milk Strike of 1933. Bands of farmers roaming the streets of the city overturned milk delivery trucks in the streets as they found them. The strike is noted as having failed.[48][49]

Apr 1935-
A fragile truce between pro-open shop management of Wattles' Omaha Traction Company, that ran the streetcars, and pro-union labor forces broke, causing a long, violent strike. The company hired strikebreakers from Brooklyn. Within days the company rolled out heavily fortified streetcars, complete with windows covered by heavy wire and armed guards on board. While few cars attracted passengers, the cars initially encountered little resistance. The company resisted calls for arbitration from the Omaha City Council and continued employing strikebreakers. In early May violence broke out, with workers' attacking the streetcars and strikebreakers by rifle attacks, violent beatings and bombings across the city. In June riots broke out with mobs' burning streetcars and looting. There were two deaths. The city government lost control of the violence and called in the National Guard, which sent 1,800 troops. Governor Robert Cochran declared martial law and ordered the streetcars to stop running. After the governor intervened and owner Wattles agreed to arbitration, a number of agreements were made with workers' representatives. But no substantive changes were made and strikebreakers stayed on the job. The violence ended, court cases ensued, and the situation slowly faded away. The Omaha Traction Company never unionized.[50][51]

Jun 1935-
Three days of more streetcar strike rioting leads to a man being killed and more than ninety persons, including women and children, were wounded. Governor Robert Leroy Cochran ordered arbitration later in the week;[52] however, new riots were reported by the end of the month.[53] 1,800 National Guardsmen were called in to quell the violence, and martial law was declared.[54] Ultimately two people were killed and 100 were injured.[55]

Feb 1942-

Students at Omaha University formed picket lines to protest the reduction in funds for athletic programs at the college. Their actions forced the closure of OU for several days and disrupted traffic along Dodge Street, the primary thoroughfare in the city.[56]
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During the Depression bankers became so unpopular that bank robbers, such as Bonnie and Clyde, became folk heroes.[58]
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Another snap shot during the great depression:

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A snap shot of the 1970's
1970s
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1978 Oil Crisis
President Jimmy Carter appeared on national television in 1977 to declare America’s dependency on foreign oil to be “the moral equivalent of war”. Few listened. Certainly not Congress.

That left America vulnerable — again — when the Shah of Iran was deposed in 1979. Iranian oil production came to a standstill. Oil production was further reduced when war erupted between Iraq and Iran. Shortages pushed oil prices up 162 percent by 1980, and the price of gasoline doubled by 1981. Inflation exceeded 10 percent per year for three years in a row. By 1983, unemployment had reached 9.6 percent.

Tens of thousands of Americans waited — sometimes vainly — in long lines at the filling station. There were shootings, riots and strikes. Congress reinstated controls on gasoline consumption. Some areas imposed an odd/even plan on gasoline purchases.

It took until 1983 to get inflation under control. Unemployment finally declined to 5.5 percent in 1988.
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I think it is a bit much to claim that “nobody was rioting” during these two historical periods, I also think it’s hard to make claim that civil unrest did not take place throughout the world. Just looking at some quick snap shots of those time periods we can see that not only was the USA dealing with civil unrest, but that the whole world was dealing with it too. Another thing to take into account is the population growth from those periods to now, the informational/internet age we current live in today (things don’t take a month to make around the world now, it takes seconds). Then add the already overly inflated “world currency” and the political disconnect from the population along with the party wars that have been taking place. And I believe you can paint a pretty nasty picture, comparatively speaking.
 
Good post JAB.

I was also thinking about the civil unrest we experienced during Vietnam after I made my post as another example when we had a lot of social strife.
 
No doubt some here may remember the case of a Russian academic Dr. Igor Panarin, working for the FAPSI (KGB) since 1976 as a specialist on US economics and tasked with providing classified forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin. In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the 45% to 55% chance that that the US would collapse in 2010 into four separate countries. He had maps and diagrams which most everyone laughed at except the Kremlin. Dr. Panarin had proved himself to be more often correct than wrong with them. As 2010 approached there were only a handful who were still laughing and nobody is laughing today. So while I think Dr. Panarin's conclusions are obviously flawed, his basic premise is not so easily dismissed.

There are a number of other solid indicators that would seem to suggest that very hard and trying economic times are coming fairly soon for all of us. The crucial question would therefore seem to be whether during these very difficult times; will Americans somehow find a way to bridge over the current political divide or will we simply break apart?

Since the current Administration has very recently purchased enough ammunition to fight a civil war and spent over another $1 billion to purchase and stock pile emergency freeze dried meals, I'd say that it's safe to conclude the some White House advisors are seeing significant possibilities of Martial Law having to be declared somewhere in the very near future.

For some reason, the international economic analysts I speak with are saying that 2014 is going to be really ugly for the US. So I'll go out on a limb here and use Dr. Panarin's "45% to 55%" as the chance we will see Martial Law being declared somewhere in the US within the next 24 to 36 months - (but I really hope I'm wrong.)
 

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