Bold part--concur, if true; especially the "willing to be honest" part. If it's "honest" and not "disingenuous." I don't have enough information at this time to make an informed determination.
Israel and Iran
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The Quartermaster
Verified Military
One in particular who had mod powers at the time, was visibly upset with me at my remark about Obama being one of the worst presidents ever at the time. Made me leave this site on my own for a long break despite the very fact that I was a site FNG at the time.
Which is why I hold contempt for him with his anti Trump rants as he played the double standard card with me. Either we are allowed free speech to dissent when we feel the need to or we are lock, step, and heel with every president good or bad. So which is it?
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Topkick
Verified Military
I never understood the love for Obama. Anytime I asked someone why they were voting for him, I usually got the deer in the headlights look because he ran on no policy other than "Hope and change." I have never cared about anything other than policy. Skin color, nah. Gender, nah. But can we at least require a candidate to have a stance on some issues?
I said all that to say...when Obama won is when I realized that I can't take politics personal and I'm not going to change anyone's mind.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Part of the problem, a BIG part of the problem, is everyone has become binary: you are for me, or you are against me; you either support President XXXXXX 100%, or you are a douchebag. I have seen this significantly rise since Bush v Gore and the great Florida debacle and SCOTUS intervention.
Kent said publicly that Iran was a threat; now he resigns because he doesn't agree with the administration's position on Iran. I still think something happened or something changed, but if it is no more than what esteemed colleague @amlove21 said (I am glad that a politician was just willing to be honest and say "I dont agree with this admin on this issue, I am out."), I'm fine with that.
Kent said publicly that Iran was a threat; now he resigns because he doesn't agree with the administration's position on Iran. I still think something happened or something changed, but if it is no more than what esteemed colleague @amlove21 said (I am glad that a politician was just willing to be honest and say "I dont agree with this admin on this issue, I am out."), I'm fine with that.
Yeah no one does, and I don't think we ever will. Even if the admin comes out wtih some damning proof of a canary trap and has him dead to rights, we still don't know what was in his heart or his intent.
Two things can be true at the same time. He could have leaked info because he felt such a deep ideological divide with the admin once he saw behind the curtain. Who knows.
I think reasonable people can disagree about it, and it's quite possible my assessment is off.
But to me, the fact that he had this public meltdown on the way out the door is indicative of his opposition to President Trump. He could have just quit quietly and walked away.
As to the anti-Israel part, this was from his letter: " ...we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby." He also said that his wife died "in a war manufactured by Israel." There are probably other indicators out there as well, but those are the most obvious.
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That part stood out to me as well. Just...odd.
Topkick
Verified Military
Are you sure this isn't true?
Box
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Please don't misunderstand my intentionally contrarian writing style. I agree 100% with the bolded comment above.
The ability to transcend binary thinking for more than just one opinion to be considered The Truth™ is what fuels my jackassery.
It's the very thing that allows me to accept that someone can be a consummate professional with an impeccable pedigree and praiseworthy service record, while simultaneously saying and doing things that might cause a lesser man to be treated like the French word for a shower...
By deciding to make a sensational public display of his resignation letter on social media - along with wild accusations that Israel is in charge of US foreign policy - changes his status from honorable former service member to rank and file DC insider that has positioned himself as a branded trademark instead of a former servicemember “faithfully serving”
As far as I’m concerned he is from here forward just Joe Kent™
Americans from all walks of life are entitled to their opinions. The difference in this case (my misguided opinion of course) is that when one accepts appointment to a position of public trust, there comes a point when part of your job is to just shut the fuck up and row. For example, I served faithfully under Bill Clinton and yet, I didn’t feel like I needed to “resign” because he abused his power when he sodomized a government clerk with a cigar. I felt that it was morally and ethically outside of what I could tolerate – for sure – but I didn’t quit my fucking job over it.
I didn’t like the “weapons of mass destruction” push that we used to get into Iraq – but that didn’t stop me from staying in the Army and using violence to force US policy on those poor innocent Iraqis that were so unfairly oppressed by nefariously influenced Israeli foreign policy pressure on George Bush.
I didn’t leave service when Obama used an extrajudicial drone strike to target and kill an American citizen.
I didn’t quit my civil service job when the Biden administration labeled me as a hopeless racist and Nazi apologist simply because I didn’t agree with his politics as they related to DEI issues. I also didn’t quit my job when I was given an ultimatum to get an experimental flu shot lest I be fired from my mother fucking government job.
…apparently Joe Kent™ has a much higher standard of values and principles than I do - especially when it comes to quitting his job when he doesn’t agree with his boss. He is clearly a better man than I.
I've served faithfully - and more importantly - under oath - for every President since Ronald Regan and there is no hope giving a count of every time a seated President has done something well outside the bounds of what I’d consider to be blatant douchebaggery.
BUT
I swore an oath – and so I served – quietly and faithfully.
Joe Kent™ also swore an oath.
...or maybe that just doesn't mean anything anymore.
I applaud his determination to resign in protest because this is still America - if that was truly what is in his heart. I do not think he is a villain simply because he resigned in protest - if that was truly what is in his heart. However, just as I don’t think he is a villain simply because he resigned in protest, I also think it is far beyond silly, that so many folks are suddenly comfortable praising him as some sort of modern-day hero as if quitting his job because he disagrees with his boss somehow makes him worthy of adoration.
He didn’t like the way his boss did things, so he quit his job. Big fucking deal. People quit their job because the boss is a dick EVERY.SINGLE.DAY. Trailer parks are full of people that do that several times a year. So you quit your job - that's too bad - hate to see ya go - anyway, Bye Joe - now, clean out your desk and turn in your access badge.
I also refuse to accept that his actions demonstrate great "character" above and beyond the character of those working at lower levels of public trust. Most of us would essentially be blowing up our lives by posting a resignation letter on social media. The Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen prosecuting this conflict don’t get to post a resignation letter on social media.
Posting his resignation letter on social media was just a douche move done for attention.
Some of the nuance here - in my opinion - rests in his daily duties and responsibilities. So tell us, exactly what is it you'd say you do here Joe Kent™ ??? Wait - don't tell me, because the mission of the NCTC is quite clear...
Lead the nation’s effort to protect the United States from terrorism by integrating, analyzing, and sharing information to drive whole-of-government action and achieve our national CT objectives.
His job isn’t to prosecute Wars – that is Pete Hegseths Job.
His job isn't to carry Americas diplomatic torch - Marco Rubio does that.
Joe Kent™ wasn't hired to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access for students of all ages...
...the former CEO of the WWF has that job – and she has it in a mother fucking sleeper hold.
Joe Kent™ was hired to “Lead the nation’s effort to protect the United States from terrorism by integrating, analyzing, and sharing information to drive whole-of-government action and achieve our national CT objectives.” So, if he was not happy with how the President was protecting the United States from terrorism using the information integrated and analyzed by the NCTC to drive a whole of government approach, then it would be his DUTY to resign in protest.
But that isn’t what happened here.
We all know what he resigned for because he posted his resignation letter.
…on social media.
If he is the example for how to behave when serving in a position of public trust, then a few of our Supreme Court Justices, a handful of ambassadors, a shit load of SES, GS-15, and maybe even GS-14 bureaucrats, and a metric fuck ton of US Representatives and US Senators...
...should resign because they don’t like how things are going
…because quitting in protest is noble now.
…even when the nation is counting on your service and expertise.
How many of us (let’s have a show of hands - and BE HONEST) currently work for the US government in some capacity, and think this is just another Foreign Policy™ boondoggle that brings profit to Military Industrial Complex while only complicating day to day life for a few hundred million Americans that just want a good night sleep?
I'll raise MY fucking hand for sure. For the record, it looks like we are doing the same thing we always do - we outrun our headlights.
...but I'm not QUITTING my job in protest
...because I’ve got a family
...I’ve got bills to pay
...I swore an oath to faithfully discharge the duties of my office
...and most importantly, I have really expensive hobbies.
My innate preference for obtuse sarcasm aside: Joe Kent™ most certainly has more going on here than just "resigning in protest" – if this was just an honest walk out after numerous efforts to provide relevant and actionable information that would change his bosses mind, or at least clearly document that he had given his boss the The Truth™ only to watch his boss shit on The Truth™ then I’d feel different about this entire situation.
But it isn’t
And I dont
I don't buy this prattle for one second. His "pedigree" is written on the same exact paper that he used for his resignation letter.
He wanted sensationalism.
He got it.
Best wishes Joe Kent™ - Thank you for your service. I wish you luck in your future endeavors, and I hope your run at elected office is successful – as long as you aren’t moving to North Carolina.
I think I'm as confident as any random person on the Internet who has no special sources, no access to classified information, and/or special regional expertise (all of which apply to me) can be.
At the same time, though, how does one prove a negative? I think the burden of proof should be on the person making the initial assertion, don't you?
"Oh, Israel made the most powerful country that ever existed go to war with someone else? That's interesting, what's the evidence?"
Burden of proof has entered the chat.
I have had the most adversarial conversations with a bunch of the biggest influencers you know about this very thing. "Ok, you said the thing, it's on you to now prove the thing. The bigger the thing you said, the more proof you need."
"YOU CANT PROVE IT'S NOT THE CASE AND WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING X PERSON OR Y EVENT?!"
It's tiresome. I don't even bother trying anymore with most of them.
Topkick
Verified Military
I don't know either way, but Joe Kent may. He wasn't just a random guy on the internet. Also, Marco Rubio all but said it on National TV. I respect your perspective, though.
I do find it odd that all of the sudden, everyone trusts our government. I haven't forgotten that I buried a Platoon Sergeant, who was a great friend, killed in a war based on lies.
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The Quartermaster
Verified Military
Clinton made me realize that the morally superior party was in actuality a party of charlatans and grifters. Obama made me realize that hate does indeed still exist in this world and it's not the kind from the Right and was tamer than even the nastier Far Right. And Biden? Biden proved that being worse than Carter was an attainable goal to peak at.
But in regards to taking politics personal, I learned this long ago that no one is going to change anyone's minds politically. However I do take it personal when people make it personal with me when I refuse to bend to their wills and it's their words coming out my mouth. It's on now. My thing is this, either we are human beings able to respect each other's opinions without making it personal or we are subhuman filth.
I respect you Top, I do. I don't always agree with you and that's okay. It's the civil discourse between us that we can get along with and learn from each other with that should the standard everywhere else.
Who's talking about trusting the government? Maybe I missed some posts.
I don't trust our government; I don't know our government. I don't trust Joe Kent; I don't know Joe Kent.
What I do trust is that people, and governments, will act in their interests.
I think it is very much in our long-term strategic national interests to go after Iran. Hard. Right now. Boot on the throat and push down. Having Israel along to go hard in the paint with us--because it's in their interests--is a bonus.
Devildoc
Verified Military
The analogy of "go hard in the paint" during March Madness is not lost on me.
Oh, I also happen to agree.
Topkick
Verified Military
Serious question, how did you come to the conclusion that Iran was an imminent threat and its necessary to go to war with them?
I don't think I'm on the record anywhere, ever, saying that I thought Iran was an imminent threat. Did I say that in this thread? If so, I need to do a Rubio and provide some "clarifying comments." ;)
Topkick
Verified Military
Okay, cool. I guess I'm just going to sit this one out. I'm honestly not even sure where I stand. It was a serious question, not intended to call you out.
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SUPER tiresome.
I was recently in a days-long enagement with a long time friend of mine who asserted that thousands of American servicemen had been killed and injured in the opening days of the Iran war.
Wow. That's interesting, I wonder if it's true.
When asked for evidence, he posted a USAJobs post advertising for mortuary affairs (or whatever they're called now). OK; a routine job announcement does not support the assertion of thousands of US casualties.
He then gave a screenshot showing that Landstuhl (the hospital in Germany that supported a lot of WIAs during Iraq and Afghanistan) was "closed." Why was it closed? Well, to support the thousands of casualties!
Or, you dumb fuck, it's because Germany is like six hours ahead of us right now, and that part of the hospital is closed because it's the weekend.
But it was all part of a grand conspiracy, and I guess I wasn't smart enough to connect the dots.
Then I noticed that it wasn't my friend posting it, but a friend of his with a similar name, who was tagging him in everything, which was why it was popping up in my feed. So I stopped engaging.
Yeah, tiresome.
Topkick
Verified Military
I'm not exactly sure where I stand on this one. There are a lot of people with more inside knowledge than I who are passionately against this war and nearly 75% of Americans disagree with it. I was lied to about Iraq, and Netenyahu and the US have been screaming "clear and present danger " for 30+ years. I'm always for a pro American regime anywhere and wouldn't be mad about that, but I am not ready to support a full scale war in Iran. It doesn't really matter, because my opinion is not going to change a fucking thing. In the end its just discussion and maybe I'll see something I've missed.
