Israel and Iran

Marauder06 said:
Just a general observation, not a defense of Judaism or any other religion:

"Otherness" is a tenet of every religion, or any organization for that matter. Differentiation in outward practices and appearances:

tells us who we are
tells others who we are
tells us who others are

If we're not different, or "other," why do we have our own thing?
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Partly culture and tradition. That said, in modern Western culture you're not supposed to use that otherness to subjugate other groups. Out of many we are one, one of the tenets that served as the basis for the unification of the states. It's also the basis for a healthy and well ordered society.

Given some of the foundational doctrine behind Islam and Judaism, they both seem to be incompatible with Western civilization. If a group sees themselves as superior how will they assimilate? If that otherness causes a minority population to view the founding majority as their lesser, what's stopping them from exploiting that society and it's people?
 
R.Caerbannog said:
Partly culture and tradition. That said, in modern Western culture you're not supposed to use that otherness to subjugate other groups. Out of many we are one, one of the tenets that served as the basis for the unification of the states. It's also the basis for a healthy and well ordered society.

Given some of the foundational doctrine behind Islam and Judaism, they both seem to be incompatible with Western civilization. If a group sees themselves as superior how will they assimilate? If that otherness causes a minority population to view the founding majority as their lesser, what's stopping them from exploiting that society and it's people?
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Well... we're pretty Western and we kind of subjugated the shit out of this entire continent. Some might argue this entire hemisphere. I hate to make it look like "whataboutism" but that's kind of how humanity works. I don't feel bad about what our forebears did and I'm personally much better off because of it. But it is what it is.

Every religion sees itself as superior. "We're God's people, and these others aren't."

Our country was founded on values that were based heavily on the Judean and Christian traditions. Christianity came from Judaism. Jesus was a Jew. All of these things are intertwined.

I guess what I'm saying about Judaism is that its "otherness" is not unique in our world, or even in our country. I also think we are conflating the Ultra Orthodox Jewish tradition with mainstream Judaism. Even within Judaism, the Ultra-Orthodox are considered extremists. I don't think I know any Ultra Orthodox Jews, and the interactions I've had with him have been... interesting (there's a large community just up the road). But far and away most Jews I've dealt with here in America are like most Americans and want the same things for themselves, their children, and America. Even if their religion (and, usually, their politics) are different from mine, I can work with that.
 
Marauder06 said:
Well... we're pretty Western and we kind of subjugated the shit out of this entire continent. Some might argue this entire hemisphere. I hate to make it look like "whataboutism" but that's kind of how humanity works. I don't feel bad about what our forebears did and I'm personally much better off because of it. But it is what it is.

Every religion sees itself as superior. "We're God's people, and these others aren't."

Our country was founded on values that were based heavily on the Judean and Christian traditions. Christianity came from Judaism. Jesus was a Jew. All of these things are intertwined.

I guess what I'm saying about Judaism is that its "otherness" is not unique in our world, or even in our country. I also think we are conflating the Ultra Orthodox Jewish tradition with mainstream Judaism. Even within Judaism, the Ultra-Orthodox are considered extremists. I don't think I know any Ultra Orthodox Jews, and the interactions I've had with him have been... interesting (there's a large community just up the road). But far and away most Jews I've dealt with here in America are like most Americans and want the same things for themselves, their children, and America. Even if their religion (and, usually, their politics) are different from mine, I can work with that.
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That's how humanity is. The Europeans were a minority when they arrived and look how that turned out for the natives. Now we're in the natives shoes. I myself would rather not be subjugated, but that's me. Others are apparently fine with this turn of events and are actively championing their subjugation.

You're right. Christianity does root from Judaism. However to the Judaic tradition Jesus is an apostate and Christians are less than that. This is why the Old Roman Church got so riled up when they translated the Torah, both systems are incompatible with each other. One faith preaches salvation to all and one to only a certain genetic group.

To add background. A big part of the New Testament was Jesus calling out the Pharisees (Jewish clerical caste) for becoming corrupt and turning away from God. His crucifixion and resurrection were part of building a New Temple, or the democratization of Abrahams god to the non-Jewish people (Gentiles), due to the failing of the Pharisees. The Judaic faith did not agree with this and actively hunted early Christians. Despite this Christianity grew and eventually flourished, via the taming of the Roman Empire.

So yeah, Jesus was Jewish and the founding fathers drew foundational beliefs from the old scriptures; but the core foundational beliefs of Judaism, much like Islam, are antithetical to those of the West.

As for mainstream Judaism and Israel, there needs to be a deep soul searching within the Jewish community. The Israeli government has absolutely partaken in modern day terrorism, they've acted against US interests, sold our technology to enemy nations, and have been behind some of the most egregious abuses of power, including using children as sexual pawns.
 
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Religion is the biggest fucking racket anyway. All religions. (I'm not talking about personal spirituality.) They're all fucking historically evil. They scam trillions, they're responsible for uncountable horrific deaths...so whatever you say about one religion being fucked up, you can say about all of them.

And IMO, Odin, Allah, Ra, Quetzalcoatl, Jesus, Buddha, Elohim, Jupiter, Mars, Zeus, Brahma, and fucking L. Ron Hubbard are all as equally valid and as equally invalid.
 
Gunz said:
Religion is the biggest fucking racket anyway. All religions. (I'm not talking about personal spirituality.) They're all fucking historically evil. They scam trillions, they're responsible for uncountable horrific deaths...so whatever you say about one religion being fucked up, you can say about all of them.

And IMO, Odin, Allah, Ra, Quetzalcoatl, Jesus, Buddha, Elohim, Jupiter, Mars, Zeus, Brahma, and fucking L. Ron Hubbard are all as equally valid and as equally invalid.
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As a Christian I take exception to this. Christianity is neither a racket nor evil, nor responsible for any deaths. Now what men (and women) have done in the name of Christianity, I totally agree.
 
^^Dozens of Cardinals and Priests around the U.S. would disagree LOL.

Turn on any "Christian" TV channel and watch for 5 mins. Any mature person of sound mind can see clear through that BS. Send you $$, so you can build a Megachurch center, and pay for your private jet because I watched you heal 10 old people with all types of illnesses, by slapping them on the forehead???

This coming from somebody who spent many years going to a Christian church and still prays before meals.

I shouldn't leave out the fact that many if not a majority of our charitable causes come from Christianity, and there is still a huge portion of religious people who put a ton of effort into helping all types of those less fortunate.
 
BlackSmokeRisinG said:
^^Dozens of Cardinals and Priests around the U.S. would disagree LOL.

Turn on any "Christian" TV channel and watch for 5 mins. Any mature person of sound mind can see clear through that BS. Send you $$, so you can build a Megachurch center, and pay for your private jet because I watched you heal 10 old people with all types of illnesses, by slapping them on the forehead???

This coming from somebody who spent many years going to a Christian church and still prays before meals.

I shouldn't leave out the fact that many if not a majority of our charitable causes come from Christianity, and there is still a huge portion of religious people who put a ton of effort into helping all types of those less fortunate.
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Did you even read my post? Sounds like the priests, you know, men, are doing it in the name of Christianity.

Don't even get me started on the state of the modern church. I don't deal in hypocrisy, I don't do well with "church".
 
Another thing people should be noticing. Why are Jewish groups, like Soros's Open Society Foundation, funding socialist Palestinian groups?

George Soros is paying student radicals who are fueling nationwide explosion of Israel-hating protests

These were the same organizations who funded the burning American cities, looting businesses, and murder of Americans, during the summer of 2020. None of what's happening is organic and it's looking like Jewish groups are purposely fanning the flames of discord.
 
R.Caerbannog said:
Another thing people should be noticing. Why are Jewish groups, like Soros's Open Society Foundation, funding socialist Palestinian groups?

George Soros is paying student radicals who are fueling nationwide explosion of Israel-hating protests

These were the same organizations who funded the burning American cities, looting businesses, and murder of Americans, during the summer of 2020. None of what's happening is organic and it's looking like Jewish groups are purposely fanning the flames of discord.
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I have not paid too much attention to the protests aside from what's on the news, but things I have found interesting are that none of them are organic; that is, they are all well organized and orchestrated; they are also well supplied and equipped; and people seem to all have the same talking points.

UNC Chapel Hill students decided to do a pop-up tent city today, and we're basically told to shut it down as it violates university policy. It did not seem to gain any traction.
 
Kraut783 said:
View attachment 44566


But, seriously....religion is flawed, because Man is flawed. It's all about personal faith...
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Meme actually touches on something very interesting. Part of what led to the expulsion of Jews from Spain and the subsequent Inquisition was the Jewish people's backing of the Islamic Armies, during the conquest and occupation of Spain. After their expulsion, Spain had it's Golden Age with the discovery and conquest of the New World.

Devildoc said:
I have not paid too much attention to the protests aside from what's on the news, but things I have found interesting are that none of them are organic; that is, they are all well organized and orchestrated; they are also well supplied and equipped; and people seem to all have the same talking points.

UNC Chapel Hill students decided to do a pop-up tent city today, and we're basically told to shut it down as it violates university policy. It did not seem to gain any traction.
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Yup. Something stinks. It's almost like the useful idiots are being riled up to polarize the public into picking a side or forcibly placing them into one, via public opinion.
 
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Devildoc said:
I have not paid too much attention to the protests aside from what's on the news, but things I have found interesting are that none of them are organic; that is, they are all well organized and orchestrated; they are also well supplied and equipped; and people seem to all have the same talking points.

UNC Chapel Hill students decided to do a pop-up tent city today, and we're basically told to shut it down as it violates university policy. It did not seem to gain any traction.
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BLM wasn't organic either. But Democrats will say "mostly peaceful".
 
Devildoc said:
Did you even read my post? Sounds like the priests, you know, men, are doing it in the name of Christianity.

Don't even get me started on the state of the modern church. I don't deal in hypocrisy, I don't do well with "church".
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Sorry, that was written as you were posting. I edited two arrows replying to Gunz.
 
R.Caerbannog said:
Another thing people should be noticing. Why are Jewish groups, like Soros's Open Society Foundation, funding socialist Palestinian groups?

George Soros is paying student radicals who are fueling nationwide explosion of Israel-hating protests

These were the same organizations who funded the burning American cities, looting businesses, and murder of Americans, during the summer of 2020. None of what's happening is organic and it's looking like Jewish groups are purposely fanning the flames of discord.
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This happened around here also last night/yesterday.

Is OSF a jewish org or just a commie one?? I know Soros turned in his jewish neighbors during the Holocaust to save himself or whatever, but had no idea his commie fundraising is tied to any religion or group.
 
R.Caerbannog said:
Another thing people should be noticing. Why are Jewish groups, like Soros's Open Society Foundation, funding socialist Palestinian groups?

George Soros is paying student radicals who are fueling nationwide explosion of Israel-hating protests

These were the same organizations who funded the burning American cities, looting businesses, and murder of Americans, during the summer of 2020. None of what's happening is organic and it's looking like Jewish groups are purposely fanning the flames of discord.
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Soros, like Marx, falls in my World Changers category. He has a foundation that is very influential. No argument. But, if we apply the same standard, the Clinton foundation is Christian by definition or American if we wanna define Jews by their ethnicity. Are we going to paint Christians and/or Americans with the same broad brush???

As of 2021, 175 Democratic members of Congress identified as Christian, vs. 23 Jewish members. It's not the Jews making the majority of policy decisions in Congress. Also, apparently AIPAC is pouring Billions toward defeating progressives.

Again...this is 2021 but...there is a wide discrepancy in how Jews vote.

If you want to flame wealthy members who disagree with your political beliefs, cool. But to paint a whole race and/or religion because of the actions of a few wealthy individuals seems, as the kids say, sus.
 
BlackSmokeRisinG said:
This happened around here also last night/yesterday.

Is OSF a jewish org or just a commie one?? I know Soros turned in his jewish neighbors during the Holocaust to save himself or whatever, but had no idea his commie fundraising is tied to any religion or group.
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It's both. What's so insidious about his Open Society Foundation is that it funds various splinter organizations and projects, like the Migrant Caravans from South America, so it has plausible deniability when conducting subversive operations.

That's what's allows his organization to have tentacles funding the protests you're seeing. Everything from lawyers and bail money for anarchists, to forward operating bases for illegal migrants.

757 said:
Soros, like Marx, falls in my World Changers category. He has a foundation that is very influential. No argument. But, if we apply the same standard, the Clinton foundation is Christian by definition or American if we wanna define Jews by their ethnicity. Are we going to paint Christians and/or Americans with the same broad brush???

As of 2021, 175 Democratic members of Congress identified as Christian, vs. 23 Jewish members. It's not the Jews making the majority of policy decisions in Congress. Also, apparently AIPAC is pouring Billions toward defeating progressives.

Again...this is 2021 but...there is a wide discrepancy in how Jews vote.

If you want to flame wealthy members who disagree with your political beliefs, cool. But to paint a whole race and/or religion because of the actions of a few wealthy individuals seems, as the kids say, sus.
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The Clinton Foundation is anything but Christian. That organizations affiliations with the Epstein and Pizza people are also commonly known. You know... the people that were sexually abusing kids to blackmail US politicians. Said organization also sold our military secrets to China... which is not very Christ like.

Second, AIPAC is pouring "Millions" not "Billions" into these races. Considering the 40 billion dollars we've just given Israel, that's a drop in the bucket for them. Especially after what Israeli intelligence people have pulled. Your number also doesn't account for the number of people in Congress or government compromised from the previously mentioned influence operation.

Voting records for one year is not indicative of how a group votes. If we go back ten years or more, the numbers paint a very different picture.

Lastly, Soros himself is not responsible for the American Bolshevik movement. Nor the gender and woke identity politics that have permeated society. Nor did he spearhead the sexual liberation movement that has wrought havoc on traditional family values. That was a group effort.
 
R.Caerbannog said:
Another thing people should be noticing. Why are Jewish groups, like Soros's Open Society Foundation, funding socialist Palestinian groups?

George Soros is paying student radicals who are fueling nationwide explosion of Israel-hating protests

These were the same organizations who funded the burning American cities, looting businesses, and murder of Americans, during the summer of 2020. None of what's happening is organic and it's looking like Jewish groups are purposely fanning the flames of discord.
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Soros is evil.

He gets rich by making countries fail, shorting their currency just prior to collapse and investing in another country (his next intended target).
Soros could also be categorized as a no-shit German Nazi, but money makes things like that go away.
 
Devildoc said:
As a Christian I take exception to this. Christianity is neither a racket nor evil, nor responsible for any deaths. Now what men (and women) have done in the name of Christianity, I totally agree.
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I meant no offense, Doc, and I agree with you it's the people who have done things in the name of their religion.

But as far as"racket" goes, there are plenty of people and organizations making trillions of tax free revenue in the name of religion who, perhaps, are not as devout as they claim. Some, I'd surmise, are actual con men who are adept at rattling off their Biblical passages or Koranic verse or whatever.

The Jews are not innocent...but of all the modern faiths they've been the victims of the most horrific atrocities for centuries. For that reason I can understand the mindset that compels them to be brutally reactive and even preemptive to injury and attack.
 
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Short and sweet.....

I'm half Jewish, on my dad's side.

I'm half Irish, on my mom's side.

Dads side were jews from Philly that had bloodline that were either murdered during the purges in eastern Europe, the ghettos and camps.

Moms side were rural, poor white folk from Tennessee that all men in family were KKK, mom denounced this hatred, left and joined Army.

Mom and dad met in Army, I was hatched in 1976.

We grew up poor for a few years while dad drove city busses and El while mom was stay at home.

Dad was electrocuted at work, in and out of hospitals for most of my childhood, mom went back to work as nurse.

My cunt sister and I shared a bedroom in a small apartment in Philly, mom and dad eventually received money for injuries and we eventually became comfortable but never left city.

We were not raised Jewish nor Christian, though, we'd celebrate certain holidays, I was never bar mitzvah'd nor were we baptized.

Not a religious family though, I always recognized my bloodline on both sides, knowing that dad's side suffered during Holocaust and mom's side being poor, white trash that made other lives, miserable, it's not my parents fault.

That said, I consider myself a Jew but also considered myself a Christian (protestant), Maria and I were married in catholic church.

Are jews bad? I don't know. Is Israel bad? Yes, I think so, at least, their government, like our government, all bastards.

Do the Jewish people deserve this? No. Does the Palestinian civilians deserve this? No.

Do the civilians suffer for their governments actions? Yes, such as we, the people do, the Russians, Ukrainians, we all do.

Are we responsible for this as civilians? Partially as we voted these fucking leaches into office.

Do I want to see Israel wipe Iran off the map? Yes.

Should we be involved with any of this? Fuck no, we need to stay the fuck out of it, do we honestly think we are making friends being involved all over the place like the crown was in 1700s? No.

Is there antisemitism? There always has been and I'll stand up against it. I'll also stand up against any POS racist cunt that abuses another citizen over race and religion.

I believe, wholeheartedly that in the case of the Jewish people, thousands of years of hatred is continued by generations and while I may disagree with how religion is used, all religions have their issues.

The real threat is not the Jewish people but the governments that represent them.

That's my take on it as an Irish Jew.
 
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