Low Recruit Discipline Prompts Army to Redesign Basic Training
- Thread starter Dame
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How does a military run without discipline, trust and training?
It becomes an armed gang.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
Clusterfuck (noun): a state of perpetual and irreparable incompetence coupled with seemingly infinite levels of enthusiastic idiocy inevitably leading to damaged prospects and the inability to accomplish a desired end state.
See: Iraq; see also, Afghanistan
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Queeg
SOF Support
Photographer: "You eyeballin' me recruit?!!"
Are those the much loved safety belts around their torsos?
Topkick
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Yep, gives the Command Sergeant Major something to talk about at meetings.
Are you at said meetings?
Topkick
Verified Military
Are you at said meetings?
Retired....I only have to fear the wrath of Whiskey 6 now, brother.
I can re-enlist for the right about of money. They are suppose to crush your soul and rebuild it. They broke me and rebuilt me.
Dame
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I was thinking the same thing. Hearing Lou Gossett Jr in my head even.
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Box
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The article has an interesting ending - “If you’re not prepared, you will fail.”
But do you really fail? If a troop performs poorly during that 96-hour FTX do they find themselves on the bus back home?
Society has ill-defined and ill-enforced the concept of failure over the last few decades and military discipline is no different. Everybody is right and everybody else is wrong, so how do we 'build' warriors from a society that has been bred NOT to even hurt peoples feelings?
I don't think the toothpaste can ever really be put back in the tube. The concept of 'citizen soldier' has consequences. If we want a society full of people that won't say "fat" because it may body shame someone - well, how do we expect citizens to assimilate into the armed forces as disciplined warriors and then BACK into society after we turn them into impersonal killers?
The job of trying to squeeze SOME of the toothpaste back into the tube is a monumental task and for the cadre responsible for completing this task, “If you’re not prepared, you will fail.”
But do you really fail? If a troop performs poorly during that 96-hour FTX do they find themselves on the bus back home?
Society has ill-defined and ill-enforced the concept of failure over the last few decades and military discipline is no different. Everybody is right and everybody else is wrong, so how do we 'build' warriors from a society that has been bred NOT to even hurt peoples feelings?
I don't think the toothpaste can ever really be put back in the tube. The concept of 'citizen soldier' has consequences. If we want a society full of people that won't say "fat" because it may body shame someone - well, how do we expect citizens to assimilate into the armed forces as disciplined warriors and then BACK into society after we turn them into impersonal killers?
The job of trying to squeeze SOME of the toothpaste back into the tube is a monumental task and for the cadre responsible for completing this task, “If you’re not prepared, you will fail.”
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It looks modeled after the Marine Corps Crucible; which the Corps says you must 'pass' to earn your Eagle Globe and Anchor.
I have very good buddy who is a former Senior D.I. and he told me that you have to try pretty hard to "fail" the Crucible. At worst you may be injured and have to be recycled a couple weeks back towards the end of another platoon's 3rd phase. The overall goal is to teach Marine recruits how far they can push themselves after 54 hours of physical tasks and only 6 hours sleep.
Topkick
Verified Military
The media is so imbedded in everything now, I can only imagine the outrage if we tried to put the toothpaste back in tube. When warriors do warrior-like things, whether in training or war, the world knows and the scrutiny begins immediately. As long as everything is force fed (and often spun in a different direction) to the public, there will be someone getting offended by what they see or hear.
EqualReaction
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I am not a SEAL basher by any means, and I even wanted to be apart of the Teams at one time. (I was a SEAL candidate until I got med dropped in NSW Prep School). I know many good dudes now that have recently got their tridents, and they are awesome in every way. NSW is trying to correct this behavior ground up now, but NSW has a good bit of toxicity in it as well. The stuff that you can do as a Team guy and get away with is disturbing. R.I.P. Chapman.
Such as what? Have any idea how much Marine grunts get away with?
EqualReaction
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I'm not a Team Guy so I don't have first hand knowledge, but I know good people who do. I don't want to bash any group so I won't give specifics, but it was mainly about drugs being a problem. NSW is working to get rid of the behavior. They are now trying to keep guys that have that extreme destructive behavior from ever getting a contract in the first place. Most SEALs I came in contact seemed like great dudes, but all are aware of these bad apples. Not much gets done to those bad apples, and that's the problem. I don't know how much Marine Grunts get away with. I can't imagine very much though.
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Just to help you out a bit in regards to the culture of this site. We ask that opinions (especially military
Opinions) be based on working first hand knowledge .... otherwise your are talking out of your lane.
Starting any post with “I don’t have firsthand knowledge” should be a sign that you probably should not comment.
EqualReaction
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Roger. I apologize. I will say however I do know the Navy is trying to fix the issue. The process to get a contract was already selective when I got one. It’s far more selective now. Even in prep if they think you are a bad apple they will make sure your name goes to the instructors in Coronado, and that’s bad news.
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