Magpul Dynamics - The Art of the Precision Rifle

[Loki]

So what is your support of him based on? I'm not drinking the koolaid... Sorry, I disagree (NOT ESPOUSE OR CONCUR WITH, this is personal opinion based) with many of the tactics, techniques and methods instructed. My personal life experiences, training and mistakes draw me to conclusions. I know he's the coolest kid on the block and popular to, not my cup of tea. My apologizes nothing personal. I further understand in the private sector this about marketing, flash and image. Sales, marketing and profit are the bottom lines. All of us got to make a living. Hate train coming, I can feel it... In the Public professional sector we have to worry about litigation, improper use of force, "failure to train" and a whole host of other issues. We are held liable daily to this high standard by our municipalities and agencies. We are also held liable for adopting techniques as trainers and documented within our agencies standards. Which makes us personally responsible both criminally and civilly to evaluate all methods, tactics and techniques as well as testify to the same to our respective administration. As a policy writer and trainer I have Fiduciary duties, vicarious liability, direct attached responsibility and "expertise" in given skill-sets and knowledge of "industry standards". If a civilian or contractor overseas does something stupid they basically eat it. Of course with conditions. If a military person does something stupid they basically get a pass from civil liability generally. And more often than not the liability or career damage is mitigated. When I write a policy, SOP agreement, lesson plan or COI / MOI I buy it, all of it. Its mine all of it... My / our job is to be skeptics and filters.

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[policemedic]

Really sorry, just not drinking the koolaid. I know he's really cool, got it...

I'm not sure that cuts it. If you're going to make oblique comments, people are going to want to know the basis of your knowledge. I don't have an opinion on Costa one way or the other; I've never met the man. I'd say the same about any subject. "The Acme Superblaster sucks donkey piss." Really? Why?

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think if you’re going to come on to a professional forum and degrade someone who is not here to defend themselves, you should at least spell out your reasons. Not drinking the Kool-Aid is not sufficient in my opinion and somewhat sounds like you don’t have a reason. I personal could not give two shits what your reasons are, I have no interest in defending Costa, but I would like to know why you are making degrading remarks about him.

 

[Loki]

Degrade??? "JOHN DOE is not in the same class or league of person as Todd nor should he (Todd) be judged or condemned by such an association." I made no specific degrading pointed or extremely critical comments other than I didn't admire and like him. Degrading his character? I possess a basis... He is doing very well and I wish him the best of luck. I hope he continues to grow a following and make money.

1. I strongly disagree with many of the tactics, techniques and methods instructed and espoused by him. I firmly believe they could (have the possibility if applied in violation of team TTPs or group collective events other than individual or utilized in populated urban areas) can be dangerous to professionals and tactically unsound in a collective training. It is distressing to have younger personnel attempting to utilize NEW UNAPPROVED techniques in team collective training environments (IE live fire shoot houses day / night and chemical agent / obstructed field of view terrain). As a result of influences like SOME TRAINERS it creates credibility and validity to flashy cool guy stuff that has no place in the business. READ THE INTENT AND COMMENT; As a long time lead professional instructor it is frictional, worrisome and concerning when my / our personnel **improperly apply SOME METHODS. I'm not talking about for profit courses or business. I further believe these methods could result in injuries. I just hope its not professionals that allow this to happen.
2. One of my staff came in contact with him at an event recently and he was rude, arrogant and abrupt.
3. Hence my personal life experiences, training and mistakes draw me to conclusions. I have concluded I'm not an admirer of his nor do I like him. WE JUST DISAGREE / NO HATE. I'm sure to many others he is a great guy, great instructor, good person and really cool dude bro. Generally; There are currently groups of new trainers returning from combat zones teaching stuff in order to supplement their current incomes. Nothing wrong with that however many of them are unqualified, lack experience and depth to influence Law Enforcement tactics. These folks have little if any Law Enforcement or even Tactical experience. They served and they have a right to sell products. I thank them all for their service and hope they all do well. There are exceptions... Many have completed one or two tours attended a few military schools and served a minimum enlistment. Nothing wrong with that, it's great but in my eyes and many others it means little to nothing in this arena. The civilian market is ripe with customers and warriors are standing in line... It's a free market and if it sells do it! That doesn't qualify one to conduct mass collective training events or heavily influence policy, procedure or methods of Police agencies & operations. And even some of the individual skills are minimal at best.

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[policemedic]

No hate train here. I've never trained with Haley or Costa, so I reserve judgment. I prefer to train elsewhere, but not because I have a personal or professional issue with either guy.

Because I tend to be an evidence-based, "show me" kind of guy, I personally prefer hearing supporting facts when someone voices an opinion on a matter like this. But hey, that's just me. You listed your reasons, and that's good enough for me. You've got a solid background, which simultaneously gives you the experience base to disagree with what Costa espouses and, in my view, makes it even more important to know your reasoning so all can benefit.

As an aside, when you edit your post to add additional info, it's good manners to flag the extra poop with ETA or simply reply to another poster. Not doing so makes the thread a bit non-linear. I know that wasn't your intention; I'm just throwing it out there for clarity.

 

[policemedic]

It is distressing to have younger personnel attempting to utilize his techniques in team collective training environments (IE live fire shoot houses day / night and chemical agent / obstructed field of view terrain).

I can understand and completely agree with this. I particularly emphasize with you where uniformity of TTPs is concerned. It does no one any good to do something differently from his teammates, it can create training scars, and "I saw it in a video" is never a valid reason for doing anything. When going through a door with 3 or 4 other shooters, everyone must know with certainty what everyone else is going to do (and how they're going to do it), or bad things can happen.

 

[Loki]

I don't know how to do all that stuff you listed, sorry. I got cave man typing ability. I have reserved judgement on Travis. He was a Marine so I can't do that, same tribe and all that. That's like stabbing your kid brother in the face or something.

 

[Loki]

I can understand and completely agree with this. I particularly emphasize with you where uniformity of TTPs is concerned. It does no one any good to do something differently from his teammates, it can create training scars, and "I saw it in a video" is never a valid reason for doing anything. When going through a door with 3 or 4 other shooters, everyone must know with certainty what everyone else is going to do (and how they're going to do it), or bad things can happen.

I take this stuff personally, we train our guys hard. We have very high expectations, our margins for injury are very close at times. As a lead instructor overseeing 24 instructors training 45 students your nerves are on edge. Little to no sleep at times. I don't want to have to explain to someones family how I tried something cool and got their sons or husbands head blown off. We use explosives, breaching gear, ballistic and mechanical as well as powered and thermal tools. My job is to oversee safety, consistency and everyone of those kids is fully prepared to do what needs to be done. I have seen training injuries. I have seen mistakes on the part of instructors and negligence. Stupid shit for no reason and one of the guys get his back broken because or a poor anchor point. Or an idiot fails to engage his safety during a man down drill and shoot himself in the foot after doing it dry ten times. Another guy gun ports a window and fires through it while operators are moving through a door with near misses. A guy throws a flash bang on a bus blows the window out and cuts up one of the guys up. You're doing man man down drills, hostage extraction. After the exercise which is done with real weapons years ago made dry one of the instructors failed to check weapon and we found a bullet in the chamber of a gun that was on the head of an actor. Another time I had a moron teaching finger on the trigger weapon off safe contact ready (gun just below the eye) movement. Which seems to be making a come back now days again Jesus H Christ pile! I caught this clown teaching this because he deviated from the core curriculum after going to some fly by night school cool-guy-high-speed-super-throw-down-ninja. I went so deep in his ass he couldn't walk for a week. When you work a rappel site, fast rope ops, helo stuff or any number of other things your guts are always rolling around. Did I do everything I was supposed to, did I think of everything? I put a kid out in the wind and you look in his eyes, you feel it. It's the same in a shoot house at night live fire. Did I think of everything, have I failed these guys. Is someone going to do something stupid here and what will it be, WILL THEY TRY SOME CRAZY TECHNIQUE OR METHOD THEY RECENTLY SAW. What is influencing their minds right now, are they focused? You're looking off the cat walk wondering... There's lots of moving parts and the last thing we / I need is fog, doubt, confusion and or lack of attention. That's what bothers me so much about SOME OF these flash in the pan MTV actors WHO ARE LITTLE MORE THAN POPULAR GUN CULT FIGURES WITH GROUPEES...


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[Diamondback 2/2]

This probably deserves its own thread but I am interested in the TTP’s that Costa is teaching, that you are stating as strongly disagreeing with. Interested in as I am unaware of this being stated before and would like to know more about it. I personally do not know Costa, nor have I trained with him so I really have no opinion, other than instructor bashing should be backed up with some facts IMO.

I have heard mixed things about MAGPUL Dynamics, but never that their teachings were wrong or dangerous.

 

[AWP]

This probably deserves its own thread but I am interested in the TTP’s that Costa is teaching, that you are stating as strongly disagreeing with. Interested in as I am unaware of this being stated before and would like to know more about it. I personally do not know Costa, nor have I trained with him so I really have no opinion, other than instructor bashing should be backed up with some facts IMO.

Money shot.

IMTT, if you don't want some TTP's in the open, I can respect that. When you start talking about safety issues, now's the time to bring specifcs to the table.

For the record, if JAB or policemedic said the same thing about Costa, Haley, Vickers, you, etc. I'd ask for specifics.

 

[Loki]

Money shot.

IMTT, if you don't want some TTP's in the open, I can respect that. When you start talking about safety issues, now's the time to bring specifcs to the table.

For the record, if JAB or policemedic said the same thing about Costa, Haley, Vickers, you, etc. I'd ask for specifics.

PM on the way, I have redacted and edited the text posts for intent & clarity.

 

[Loki]

Nicely done Sir!

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

IMTT, I do understand the intent it what you are trying to point out, regarding the need to ensure proper training that is supported through referenced material and or lessons learned. However, your lack of details and comments of not drinking from the MAGPUL Kool-Aid without providing factual information as to why you have formed the opinions you have, is what I do not understand.

Again I am not saying Costa or any other instructor from MAGPUL is good to go or fucked up like a football bat. I do not know if they are or if they are not, if they are I would like to know exactly why.

There are a few instructors I will bash to no end, but I make it very clear as to why I am bashing them and normally attempt to avoid doing so all together.

As for Costa, the only issue I have ever heard of was people wanting to know what his background is, etc. I have never heard anything of him or any other instructor at MAGPUL Dynamics teaching incorrect TTP’s or an issue of bad teachings.

My original question was “What is your problem with Chris Costa” what you have replied with is that you don’t drink the kool-aid, he teaches bad TTP’s (but with no details) and that you don’t care for people who become popular in the business and who have an ego or attitude (which would be about 99% of the community as with all type A communities).

 

[Loki]

Dude, can you stop, this is really eating you up. Please contact "freefalling" directly for further information and facts. Read the entire posts as listed. I don't think your getting it, nor do you understand...You can call my house directly I'm listed or directly e-mail me. Hell fly over we'll talk face to face. This has nothing to do with popularity or anything else. Get past it and get past the drinking the Koolaid comment, look beyond that.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

LOL no worries "dude" I see you are not going to put up any facts here, so need to discuss it further.;)

 

[AWP]

While IMTT has his reasons, it is apparent that this thread is going nowhere. I'm not banging on anyone in particular so don't take this post as condemnation.

The moral of this story is that if you can't or won't offer up examples to support your statements, then don't make them.

If you want to continue this discussion offline, be my guest, otherwise we're done here.