Marine Andrew Tahmooressi Freed

So he didn't pay attention. If you are in an unfamiliar area you ALWAYS should make sure you know where you are going. Who cares if someone behind you honks or you take an extra minute to make sure you know where you are going. If he had walked that area twice that day he should have known.

It's not like he's the only American abroad who has been locked up for doing something stupid. Why are people all up in arms about this particular case when he broke local law, intentional or not? Even the State Department website warns what can happen if you break local laws.
 
Because it is a reason to support the troops while bitching about POTUS, and making other people feel bad about saying otherwise because... you know the troops...
 
Or, you know, just because you break the law doesn't mean you have to be shackled to the bed, starved and shit. Because, you know, white privilege?
 
So maybe I missed a memo, but this should not be about him being a Marine - it is about the Mexican government holding a US citizen for a nonsensical time, when the US government made zero apparent attempt to get him back.
The impression I get from @medicchick , @Ranger Psych and @TLDR20 is that he got what he deserved for breaking Mexican law - considering what we know about what he did, I just cannot agree with that. He was not selling drugs or guns, he was not raping anyone, he made a wrong fucking turn. Probably screwing around on his cell phone, but that does not mean he belongs in a Mexican prison.

I was arguing with a buddy about this yesterday and he was comparing it to being stationed in Okinawa, and because of SOFA, if you break a Japanese law, you're fucked. Well Mexico is not Japan, we are not kissing their asses to leave our bases there; and it is a damn shame the the United States of America can not wield enough influence with fucking Mexico, to get a citizen out of their jail who obviously was not intending to break any of their laws. Can't get him out until a week before mid-term elections that is.
 
POTUS can't just pick up the phone?

"Hola Enrique! We have some elections coming up and I need a little boost in the polls so could you let our guy go and I'll hook you up with some EO action on the immigration thing? So you and PRI can look good at home? Total win/win hermano."
 
It's about the mexican government holding an individual, regardless of nationality, that DID break their laws. They're fully in their rights to do so. It's like if you go down to Tijuana and get smashed 19 ways from sunday, tag team the lady in the donkey show without lighting a candle or asking her name, and then try to ride the donkey out the front doors. It doesn't end well and you're going to be in jail.1

There's no ifs ands or buts, mistake or not, he did break their laws. PERIOD.

When you cross the border you are subject to their laws. Just like I was in Canada, just like I was in Thailand, germany, and a bunch of other places. Stepping on your dick in foreign countries tends to have a lasting impact, especially since many countries don't have as much freedom as we do.
 
During my time in various foreign countries (as a civilian), State Dept. officials always stressed that if we were imprisoned, they would visit us to make sure that we were being treated fairly but would not pull any strings to get us out. Because they respect the sovereignty of the nation that we would be held in, they really couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything. The most that they could offer us would be small toiletries, access to legal counsel, and maybe some calls home, but that would be about it. It seems like that may have been the case in this matter (as evidenced by this article from August http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/31/white-house-responds-tahmooressi-petition-we-respe/)
I do find it odd that the government has no compunction against violating the sovereignty of most other countries with our surveillance apparatuses, but apparently blanches at the thought of pulling a few strings to get an American out of jail. I don't believe that this is unique to the current administration either. I can't remember an instance of previous administrations working through diplomatic channels to free Americans who had committed crimes, either knowingly or unknowingly, in a foreign country while not working as a representative of the USG. If you know of them, please post them.

Also, for those of you who want to compare this case to the Bowe Bergdahl case I only have two words for you: false equivalence.
 
Deathy,

Are you basing "false equivalence" on the belief that Bergdahl was considered a POW while Tahmooressi was being held due to a law that he broke? If so, I guess that fits the definition, and it's taken me a few minutes here to think through my response, since at the time we did not "know" Bergdahl had deserted. (Do we officially even know that yet?)

I will grant you that I may be coming at this from a somewhat emotional point of view, (which I know is never a good idea), but it chaps my ass that he was left to rot in a Mexican prison while the administration "monitored the situation" - and then a week before the election he gets released. Yes, I am so bitter with politics (both sides) that I can believe it was done to help the current administration.
 
@Deathy McDeath I agreed with the first part of your post, however, I can think of one recent example: the two journalists imprisoned by N. Korea in 2009. Ultimately it was Bill Clinton who negotiated the release. Admittedly, he acted as a private citizen, not as an agent of the USG, but his trip didn't take place until after DoS had already made several statements and attempts to negotiate release.

IIRC, the circumstances of the detainment were similar - unwitting illegal entry into North Korea.
 
This article shed a lot if light on facts that weren't getting a lot of airtime. After reading this excerpt I don't buy that he crossed into Mexico on accident-

"he had crossed the border several times, including earlier on the day of his arrest, when he walked into Mexico, checked into Tijuana's Hotel Nelson, then checked out and walked back to the U.S. hours later. (This means that he left his three loaded guns and ammo sitting in his Ford F-150 truck in a San Ysidro parking lot for hours.)"

http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-ra-tahmooressi-spin-machine-20140807-column.html#page=1
 
Everybody's all getting their fucking man-panties in a testicular bunch over whether he should be there or not. He broke a law, yes. Whether purposefully or not, he did, and we've all heard the saying, "Ignorance is no excuse." However, that DOES NOT MEAN that he should be starved and beaten during his incarceration. And every last one of you who's bitching about whether he should've been there or not has lost sight of that, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

If he hadn't received the "Mommy Dearest" treatment at the hands of his captors, this wouldn't be an issue in any sense of the word. However, he most certainly did get treated like a chimo of the worst degree just for being stupid. That is where the State Department should've stepped in, and demanded more humane treatment while he awaited trial, served out his sentence, or whatever the case may be. They didn't do that. They showed no interest in it. They failed Tahmooressi.

It took the mainstream media shining a light on his situation before they quit torturing him. It took Montel Williams going over to have a talk with their higher ups to get him cut loose. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that Mexico's manhandling of Tahmooressi was an indirect retaliation for our alleged violation of the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations in regard to having already put one of Mexico's outstanding social contributions to our society to death in January of this year, with 51 more waiting in the wings.

While my opinion is that yes, he was guilty of a crime, and therefore should've served an appropriate sentence for that crime, being chained to his bed, denied food and water, and being beaten on a regular basis is hardly a fucking appropriate sentence for being a dumbass. That's where the US Government should've stepped up, to make sure that even our criminals are treated in a manner that is humane. They didn't, and that's exactly why they get a giant "FYRITP" from me. And to those of you who think he got exactly what he deserved, beatings and all, I hope to God that you don't get your ass handed to you by your local constabulary, because you bet your sweet bearded asses I'll knock on your door with a bottle of champagne and streamers hanging from my hair going "HAHA, serves you right, motherfucker!"
 
Totentanz said:
@Deathy McDeath I agreed with the first part of your post, however, I can think of one recent example: the two journalists imprisoned by N. Korea in 2009. Ultimately it was Bill Clinton who negotiated the release. Admittedly, he acted as a private citizen, not as an agent of the USG, but his trip didn't take place until after DoS had already made several statements and attempts to negotiate release.

IIRC, the circumstances of the detainment were similar - unwitting illegal entry into North Korea.
Click to expand...

With a SS detail? C'mon, he IS affiliated with the USG.
 
lindy said:
With a SS detail? C'mon, he IS affiliated with the USG.
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to get into the specifics of Clinton's involvement and representation - the point was the DoS efforts made prior to his involvement.

FWIW - the official word from both him and State was that he was there of his own accord. That said, when you're a former head of state and married to the SecState, it's impossible to separate yourself from the official positions of the USG (and "private citizen" only serves as CYA if negotiations go south).
 
Point of order: he was on pre-trial confinement and was ultimately acquitted. Therefore he was NOT guilty of any crime against the great state of Mexico. (No more wire hangers!)

The DOS political officers should have visited regularly and when they learned of his maltreatment, pushed it up to higher and further engaged the Mexicans to ensure they follow basic human rights.

Like @Deathy McDeath 's article said "we will monitor the situation" but did they, the local DOS employees?
 
racing_kitty said:
Everybody's all getting their fucking man-panties in a testicular bunch over whether he should be there or not. He broke a law, yes. Whether purposefully or not, he did, and we've all heard the saying, "Ignorance is no excuse." However, that DOES NOT MEAN that he should be starved and beaten during his incarceration. And every last one of you who's bitching about whether he should've been there or not has lost sight of that, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

If he hadn't received the "Mommy Dearest" treatment at the hands of his captors, this wouldn't be an issue in any sense of the word. However, he most certainly did get treated like a chimo of the worst degree just for being stupid. That is where the State Department should've stepped in, and demanded more humane treatment while he awaited trial, served out his sentence, or whatever the case may be. They didn't do that. They showed no interest in it. They failed Tahmooressi.

It took the mainstream media shining a light on his situation before they quit torturing him. It took Montel Williams going over to have a talk with their higher ups to get him cut loose. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that Mexico's manhandling of Tahmooressi was an indirect retaliation for our alleged violation of the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations in regard to having already put one of Mexico's outstanding social contributions to our society to death in January of this year, with 51 more waiting in the wings.

While my opinion is that yes, he was guilty of a crime, and therefore should've served an appropriate sentence for that crime, being chained to his bed, denied food and water, and being beaten on a regular basis is hardly a fucking appropriate sentence for being a dumbass. That's where the US Government should've stepped up, to make sure that even our criminals are treated in a manner that is humane. They didn't, and that's exactly why they get a giant "FYRITP" from me. And to those of you who think he got exactly what he deserved, beatings and all, I hope to God that you don't get your ass handed to you by your local constabulary, because you bet your sweet bearded asses I'll knock on your door with a bottle of champagne and streamers hanging from my hair going "HAHA, serves you right, motherfucker!"
Click to expand...

Af'ingmen. I'd triple like/agree if I could.
 
lindy said:
Point of order: he was on pre-trial confinement and was ultimately acquitted. Therefore he was NOT guilty of any crime against the great state of Mexico. (No more wire hangers!)

The DOS political officers should have visited regularly and when they learned of his maltreatment, pushed it up to higher and further engaged the Mexicans to ensure they follow basic human rights.

Like @Deathy McDeath 's article said "we will monitor the situation" but did they, the local DOS employees?
Click to expand...


how many Marines are incarcerated in Mexico on a semi-regular basis? I think DoS sorta has its hands full with Americans getting locked up down there....
 

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