MARINE SPECIAL OPERATORS BREAST INSIGNIA

[Devildoc]

Your post...

Thanks for your insight. To be sure when NSW went to its own source rating and took HMs out of the mix and started sending team guys to SOCM, it caused a great deal of consternation. I could see it giving the Marines some indigestion as well if they had to send Marines to SOCM.

Around the time MARSOC stood up, I knew a couple of the Master Chiefs in the detailer's shop, and they were all concerned about how to spread SARCs (and corpsmen in recon who were not SARCs) who were already spread thin to a new unit, diluting the manpower.

As to the device, like it or lump it, the Marines have been the last branch to dabble in bling. @The Hate Ape is spot on; everyone but everyone knows what the bubble and wings are, and who wears them. For swabbies who do like chest candy, there is a tremendous amount of pride with that which shows serving with the Marines...first with the FMF ribbon, then FMF warfare device, and certainly with the bubble/wings.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

This has turned into one of those threads where I envision myself sitting at the bar with a few guys, just listening...and appreciating the wealth of knowledge being exchanged.

 

[JARadar]

As a very new guy to this world... I very much appreciate all the insight.

 

[Gunz]

Corpsmen with the original Raider units weren't officially Raiders either, although they humped the same courses. I'm sure their Marine brothers-in-arms considered them Raiders in everything but name. Corpsmen (and combat medics) are sacred to all of us who've gone into the fight with them.

James Gleason passed away last year in Tampa. He was a Navy Corpsmen with the Raiders in WWII and wrote a book about it. General Mattis had this to say about him:

“I met Doc Gleason and he is made of the right stuff — a true Fleet Marine,” said James Mattis, a retired Marine general and former commander of U.S. Central Command. “‘Doc,’ who represented all the character and Gung-Ho that have made our Navy Corpsmen brothers so highly respected in the macho Marine Corps. Doc was a great sailor, fine friend and a true role model for us all. We will miss him terribly.”

The Mad Dog didn't go as far as to call Gleason a Raider, but I don't think any Marine would object to a Raider Corpsman wearing the patch. They earned it even if they don't get to wear it on the uniform.

 

[Red Flag 1]

[Q

 

[The Hate Ape]

@Ocoka about the Corpsman wearing a Raider emblem.

Some supplemental information to my previous post regarding our SARCs and Raiders - every SARC I know also unquestionably dons a Raider patch somewhere on their kit or drifire/crye cammies. This is - MOSTLY - immediately considered acceptable by 0372s.

Even for the ones who are not embraced right away, those guys are more quickly accepted into the circle than say - a SOCS who would have to wait until a deployment or two on the teams to even consider wearing a jack patch let alone consider themselves truly a part of the community.

Some people (SOCS) will whine about that statement or grumble at it - doesn't make it any less truthful. IMHO the situation is relative to perspective and the individual but the best rule of thumb concerning that stuff is if you have to ask someone whether you rate something or not then you probably already know the answer.

 

[Devildoc]

@The Hate Ape, the jack patch is all-hands now, not just for NSW.

NSW can be very....cliquish. They generally don't care much for non-NSW, no matter the contribution to the mission. I found the Marines to be very accepting and inclusive once you prove you weight and worth.

 

[Gunz]

@The Hate Ape, the jack patch is all-hands now, not just for NSW.

NSW can be very....cliquish. They generally don't care much for non-NSW, no matter the contribution to the mission. I found the Marines to be very accepting and inclusive once you prove you weight and worth.

Once Marines know that you are willing to crawl through fire to get to their wounded, you walk on water and you'll be a sacred brother for life. I served with two Corpsmen whom I would fucking kill for. When one of them rotated a replacement came in and buried his head in the dirt during his baptism of fire and was gone the next morning. That was an extremely rare exception to the rule.

These special operations qualified Corpsmen, SARCs, combat medics, SF medics, PJs etc are some very special cats. If there was a church where I could pay homage to them, I'd be there every fuckin Sunday with a complimentary bottle of Johnny Black.

 

[Grunt]

We always considered our "Docs" as being one of the team. It was that simple. For the most part -- with very rare exceptions -- they did everything we did. Yep...they were brothers!

 

[The Hate Ape]

@The Hate Ape, the jack patch is all-hands now, not just for NSW.

NSW can be very....cliquish. They generally don't care much for non-NSW, no matter the contribution to the mission. I found the Marines to be very accepting and inclusive once you prove you weight and worth.

Wrong jack. I'm referring to the raider jack specifically. The one pictured in the previous post.

 

[Deleted member 2517]

Corpsmen with the original Raider units weren't officially Raiders either, although they humped the same courses. I'm sure their Marine brothers-in-arms considered them Raiders in everything but name. Corpsmen (and combat medics) are sacred to all of us who've gone into the fight with them.

James Gleason passed away last year in Tampa. He was a Navy Corpsmen with the Raiders in WWII and wrote a book about it. General Mattis had this to say about him:

“I met Doc Gleason and he is made of the right stuff — a true Fleet Marine,” said James Mattis, a retired Marine general and former commander of U.S. Central Command. “‘Doc,’ who represented all the character and Gung-Ho that have made our Navy Corpsmen brothers so highly respected in the macho Marine Corps. Doc was a great sailor, fine friend and a true role model for us all. We will miss him terribly.”

The Mad Dog didn't go as far as to call Gleason a Raider, but I don't think any Marine would object to a Raider Corpsman wearing the patch. They earned it even if they don't get to wear it on the uniform.


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Side note- the number of SOF guys who retire in Tampa is mind boggling. And I mean beyond just guys who ended up there when they finished their careers at SOCOM- it's like every SOF savage decides to head down there when they hang it up.

 

[Gunz]

Side note- the number of SOF guys who retire in Tampa is mind boggling. And I mean beyond just guys who ended up there when they finished their careers at SOCOM- it's like every SOF savage decides to head down there when they hang it up.

Tampa has it's attractions.

 

[Devildoc]

Wrong jack. I'm referring to the raider jack specifically. The one pictured in the previous post.

Gotcha. Good example of same language, two different meanings.

 

[TLDR20]

I don't know much about the end-user with SARCs (vis-à-vis Recon/MARSOC) or how they get distributed now, but I do know a thing or two about how Big Navy handles its personnel assigned to the Marines, and you are spot on with your assessment that it always goes back to the Navy and the Navy is reluctant to change. I also agree from my comfy armchair that it seems like a better product and better value to run it like how Ranger Regt does it, but just as hidebound as the Navy is with tradition and loathe to change, the Marines seem equally so.*

*Disclaimer: I have been totally out now for several years, so I don't know if the culture has moved at all from how it was.

I don't really get your point here.

I don't know how you think Ranger Regiment does "it" but they have a much larger recruit pool to pull from and to be honest an easier pipeline.

Ranger Regiment selects at RASP then either sends to SOCM or a dude gets RFS'ed before he gets there. After SOCM he goes back to regiment. Are you suggesting corpsman just go to A&S? If that is what you are suggesting I would agree, strongly. But that would not a SARC make.

MARSOC needs to just make themselves ODA's. Make 4 different MOS's and take a regional responsibility, everything but SOUTHCOM is up for grabs;)

Also the way the SEALs did it is fucking stupid. They now create "medics" who want nothing to do with being a corpsman, and in fact aren't "medics" until after at least one "deployment". My use of quotes is intentional. Many of the new SEAL "medics", not old school dudes who were corpsman before, can't even run platoon medical training themselves...

 

[Devildoc]

I don't really get your point here.

I don't know how you think Ranger Regiment does "it" but they have a much larger recruit pool to pull from and to be honest an easier pipeline.

Ranger Regiment selects at RASP then either sends to SOCM or a dude gets RFS'ed before he gets there. After SOCM he goes back to regiment. Are you suggesting corpsman just go to A&S? If that is what you are suggesting I would agree, strongly. But that would not a SARC make.

MARSOC needs to just make themselves ODA's. Make 4 different MOS's and take a regional responsibility, everything but SOUTHCOM is up for grabs;)

Also the way the SEALs did it is fucking stupid. They now create "medics" who want nothing to do with being a corpsman, and in fact aren't "medics" until after at least one "deployment". My use of quotes is intentional. Many of the new SEAL "medics", not old school dudes who were corpsman before, can't even run platoon medical training themselves...

I don't know why NSW did what they did, or why they did it. Oh, some have tried to explain it to me, but it never made sense. I agree with your last statement, and have said similar things.

I have also thought it a good idea that HMs go to A&S, just as they have to go to BRC before going through the Recon pipeline. So to that, I agree.

 

[The Hate Ape]

I don't really get your point here.

I don't know how you think Ranger Regiment does "it" but they have a much larger recruit pool to pull from and to be honest an easier pipeline.

Ranger Regiment selects at RASP then either sends to SOCM or a dude gets RFS'ed before he gets there. After SOCM he goes back to regiment. Are you suggesting corpsman just go to A&S? If that is what you are suggesting I would agree, strongly. But that would not a SARC make.

MARSOC needs to just make themselves ODA's. Make 4 different MOS's and take a regional responsibility, everything but SOUTHCOM is up for grabs;)

Also the way the SEALs did it is fucking stupid. They now create "medics" who want nothing to do with being a corpsman, and in fact aren't "medics" until after at least one "deployment". My use of quotes is intentional. Many of the new SEAL "medics", not old school dudes who were corpsman before, can't even run platoon medical training themselves...

We cant. One SF group is larger than all of our unit combined. To take the helm on the AOs, let alone dedicate ourselves beyond dividing the world into 3 parts is a shot in the foot. We can barely retain enough personnel as it is...

 

[Teufel]

We cant. One SF group is larger than all of our unit combined. To take the helm on the AOs, let alone dedicate ourselves beyond dividing the world into 3 parts is a shot in the foot. We can barely retain enough personnel as it is...

I talked to Col Schuele about this when he was the CO of the school house. He wanted to do what you're talking about but decided against it because MARSOC is too small to specialize like that.

 

[The Hate Ape]

^Spot on Sir.

CSO retention has always been decent in comparison to the SOCS. Aside from SOCS not being permanent personnel, a portion of SOCS who are brought over as Sergeants tend to not reenlist either and/or are recruited heavily by T1/SMUs each year. The result is experience/personnel shortfalls at the companies & teams alike. IMHO MARSOC tries to lock down more AOs than it's personnel can man even currently.

 

[TLDR20]

We cant. One SF group is larger than all of our unit combined. To take the helm on the AOs, let alone dedicate ourselves beyond dividing the world into 3 parts is a shot in the foot. We can barely retain enough personnel as it is...

You could regionally orient in terms of language, and deploying to the same A/O's. I'm not saying you should be taking over for SF...

 

[The Hate Ape]

Yeah almost everyone hits up a language factor. The scope of the issue I'm suggesting isn't so much based on "taking over" for an ODA which would be an absurdity in a place where they're (SF) established (especially South America) but to even lock down on anything in particular. We're literally too small to commit to an AO outside of the Middle East and Africa and consistently rotate dudes in/out. Going back to language, this is why most dudes are learning Arabic and French dialects and shit because that's almost the only languages guaranteed to be used.

To keep the pace though, we marry up a lot with Tridents and you guys for the purpose of a consistent US presence in a given area obviously.