What's your reasoning behind these changes?
Military Fitness Brainstorming
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What's your reasoning behind these changes?
Variety. I figured the 5/3/1 format could be applied to any lift that I'd like to see improvement on.
There's no "open gym" time at Invictus, so I don't have a chance to work on the strength aspect of my Oly lifts, more technique than anything. The C&J incorporates a little bit of everything into it with a pressing movement at the end. That's why I chose it vice the OH press.
Do you have other recommendations or do you suggest sticking with the big 4?
I would caution against using a lift as complex as the C&J as a main lift in 5/3/1. That final all-out set is much more difficult to employ with the Oly lifts. The Oly lifts are form intensive and training them to failure is not a good way to get better. It's one thing to miss on a 1RM attempt, it's another to go to muscle failure at 80%+. Form will degrade before a failed rep, and you will end up reinforcing bad habits. Not only that, but IMHO your risk for injury is much greater when trying to use a max set format with Oly lifts. I incorporated C&Js/snatches in a few different ways when I was doing 5/3/1. One way is to use them as an assistance lift. Lighter weight, moderate reps, and enough rest to ensure fatigue is not going to affect form. A second way is by using them in your conditioning workouts. Focus on solid form (i.e. don't sacrifice form for time), but use lighter weight for higher reps in a couplet or triplet. An example would be: 3 rounds of: C&J x 10, 100m sprint, snatch X 10, 100m sprint. The third way to use them is to do them at a heavier weight before your main 5/3/1 workout. When doing this I usually would C&J on squat day and snatch on deadlift day. You won't fatigue yourself enough to affect your main lift by working up to a heavy set of 3, or even heavy singles. You could check out some of the Oly programming from The Outlaw Way for solid examples.
If you want to take out the press, I would swap it for the push press. The push press is still a pretty simple movement, and the limiting factor of needing the upper body strength to still press the weight for a partial ROM will limit you getting into weight so heavy that you risk injury by trying to lower it. I would only use the jerk over the push press if you have access to jerk blocks.
If you want to take out the press, I would swap it for the push press. The push press is still a pretty simple movement, and the limiting factor of needing the upper body strength to still press the weight for a partial ROM will limit you getting into weight so heavy that you risk injury by trying to lower it. I would only use the jerk over the push press if you have access to jerk blocks.
Strict pressing on 531 had the slowest progress. I agree with going for push press the instead.
as far as oly lifts go, like CDG said, do em before your main lift.
Maybe instead of the 531 waves
week 1 5x3@70-75%
Week 2 5x2@75-85%
Week 3 5x1@85-90% and go heavier for 3 more sets if you're feelin it to PR.
I've never done cleans with 531, but thats how I'd maybe do it on a squat day
as far as oly lifts go, like CDG said, do em before your main lift.
Maybe instead of the 531 waves
week 1 5x3@70-75%
Week 2 5x2@75-85%
Week 3 5x1@85-90% and go heavier for 3 more sets if you're feelin it to PR.
I've never done cleans with 531, but thats how I'd maybe do it on a squat day
Thanks for the break down, brother. PP it is.
I'll also look into The Outlaw Way as well.
I'll also look into The Outlaw Way as well.
I like using sprints/intervals as a base for my run training.
Usually I'll hit 6-10x 200-400m's Tuesday, 4-6x 800-1000m's a Thursday, then a 5-10k for time on Saturdays.
If I do LSD runs too often, I get pretty drained in conjunction with my PT at the gym. With sprints, it doesnt affect my other PT too much. I had a tri coach do HR training by zone with me for 2-3 months, and I just about lost my mind with LSD running 5x a week.
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We're pretty similiar there! I'm starting off with intervals once a week and LSD once too plus a swim. The intervals are anaerobic, so similiar energy system to lifting.. the beauty of it being they are compatible. LSD cripples strength training after a while, so once I did a marathon during the year I lowered the mileage and got more job specific.
LSD stuff is great though.. don't fatigue as easy throughout the day, and taking a deep breath means a deep breath.
Ever done any hill sprint/repeats?
My swimming is usually LSD and staggered with my sprint days. For some reason I get bored with LSD running, but not so much with swimming. Its weird, but I havent been keeping up with my cardio since school started the last 3 weeks, and I feel like my recovery is off. I need to get back in the pool.
I'll do Hill sprints every now and again. I actually did them yesterday 1hr after training with @reed11b . Worked up to a 220 snatch, 250 c&j and 285 frontsquat, then a 15 minute metcon. Ended up sleeping in until 2pm today. I feel like I got hit by a freight train.
I'll do Hill sprints every now and again. I actually did them yesterday 1hr after training with @reed11b . Worked up to a 220 snatch, 250 c&j and 285 frontsquat, then a 15 minute metcon. Ended up sleeping in until 2pm today. I feel like I got hit by a freight train.
Wanted to revive this thread for what it was...a place to post good weightlifting/exercise plans, programming, progress, advice etc... Leave the Fran bashing and shit talking in the CF thread, please.
-I got a cruel reminder as to just how important the deload week is in 5/3/1. I tried skipping it and adding weight in my next cycle, front squats kicked me in the face on my first day.
-I also ran an embarrassingly slow 5K (ended up being 3.2 miles) for my command. I had been doing a 5K work up plan on RunKeeper (my GPS app for tracking all my runs) and it had me doing shorter runs and a few sprint days, which seems to be the common advice for working on relatively short distance runs. Then I look back over the last year at some of my fastest times and I was doing a simple 2, 3 & 4 mile run every week. That was it. Maybe I was trying to fix something that wasn't broken. I think I'm going to go back to that and see what happens.
Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
-I got a cruel reminder as to just how important the deload week is in 5/3/1. I tried skipping it and adding weight in my next cycle, front squats kicked me in the face on my first day.
-I also ran an embarrassingly slow 5K (ended up being 3.2 miles) for my command. I had been doing a 5K work up plan on RunKeeper (my GPS app for tracking all my runs) and it had me doing shorter runs and a few sprint days, which seems to be the common advice for working on relatively short distance runs. Then I look back over the last year at some of my fastest times and I was doing a simple 2, 3 & 4 mile run every week. That was it. Maybe I was trying to fix something that wasn't broken. I think I'm going to go back to that and see what happens.
Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
SexyBeast
Verified Military
Push press is one of, if not my most favorite lift....
Also low skill so you don't really have to worry about massive injuries due to fatigue, relatively speaking.
Also low skill so you don't really have to worry about massive injuries due to fatigue, relatively speaking.
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No idea without knowing what you've been doing over the last 6-8 weeks. Overtraining? Inadequate run training? Bad week? Too many factors and not enough info.
It was a 5 week work up.
Week 1:
M: 1.5 miles constant/steady pace
T: 45-60 mins cross training
Th: 1.5 miles constant/steady pace
F: 1.5 mile run
S: X-train
Week 2:
M: 2 mile run
T: X-train
Th: 5 min warm up/1:00 sprint, 2:00 jog x 4/5:00 cool down
F: 2 mile run
S: X-train
The rest went basically like that. Previously, like I said, just a simple 2, 3 & 4 mile run, not always in that order. The 2 mile run I'd focus on speed. 3 & 4 mile runs were focused more on consistency and hitting negative splits.
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I don't know man. I know for me, if I don't put in the time running, my times suffer. A lot if guys try to find ways to train around it, but as the saying goes, if you want to get better at (insert event here), do that event.
swimr235
Verified Military
I find doing 3 x 1 mile time trials with 5 minutes rest in between gets just about every distance under a 5k faster and just makes the whole running experience better. I'd do this 3x a week: Day 1: 6x200m, 4x 400m, 2x800m. Rest is equal to effort. Day 3: 3x 1mile repeats, 5 mins rest. Day3: 1x800m, 3x 400m, 5x 200m. Rest is equal to effort. There is no rhyme or reason for any of the actual distances, times and intervals. It just works. Also, none of this should take longer than about 30-45 mins at the very longest. Easily slap a strength workout or metcon prior to or after this. Interesting enough, this works well for rowing and swimming as well. Swimming is, by far, my strong suit. Running is, by far, my worst. God do I hate running.
Ladder Guy
Unverified
One constant issue I see with many at the gym is actually not using proper technique with the push press. Either people fail to activate their shoulders/traps/upper back, counter lean to 'balance' the weight, or take their spine/pelvis out of neutral and hyper extend themselves. Just from what I have seen this is not a low skill lift.
It's still a low skill lift in comparison to the snatch, clean, jerk, or clean and jerk. People fuck up everything from air squats to bench press at the gym. It usually has little to do with the movement.
