Military Intelligence: differences in starting earlier or later?

[x SF med]

Well, how do you get to take credit for other peoples' work if you're not an "O"? ;)

You don't. You become a selfless and caring mentor for young enlisted people, and for young officers - so that the Experienced Officers can take your ideas and run with them. Of course as an NCO, scorn for those young officers and young enlisted is one of the major resources in your toolbox... along with disdain for lazy experienced officers who spend way too much time on the golf course after taking credit for your hard work...

 

[Marauder06]

Hey, I resent that comment..... I don't golf! ;)

 

[x SF med]

Hey, I resent that comment..... I don't golf! ;)

No you browse for clip art... same difference... it's something useless ;)

 

[Marauder06]

Browsing sounds a lot like work, I prefer to wait for the clipart to come to me.

 

[Chevy]

It's like a mustache with titties...only different.

I like how you tied a little of Action Figure Therapy in there. Jungle Recon is truly hilarious.

 

[Marauder06]

The whole purpose of the branch detail program is to assign combat support officers to combat arms branches for the first 2-4 years of service. So if you get a branch detail of any type, you are going to start off as some type of combat arms officer. That could be infantry, armor, field artillery, or ADA, for example. There are, of course, no guarantees that you will get MI as your control branch. You could end up getting something like... I don't know... what's the worst thing out there... Signal Corps for example (@Freefalling ;) ).

But there are no guarantees either way. You could request to single-branch MI and end up in the chemical corps for example. "Needs of the Army" and all that. So I recommend you roll the dice on the branch detail. Let the Army know what you want, and see what happens. Whatever you end up being branched, be glad that you have been given the opportunity to serve your country as a commissioned officer, and be the best <insert branch here> 2LT you can be.

By the way, Signal Corps is a very good branch, it was #2 on my combat support picks when I got commissioned. I just tossed that earlier jab in there for the benefit of my good friend Freefalling, who was a signal corps officer back in the day.

 

[Crusader74]

The whole purpose of the branch detail program is to assign combat support officers to combat arms branches for the first 2-4 years of service. So if you get a branch detail of any type, you are going to start off as some type of combat arms officer. That could be infantry, armor, field artillery, or ADA, for example. There are, of course, no guarantees that you will get MI as your control branch. You could end up getting something like... I don't know... what's the worst thing out there... Signal Corps for example (@Freefalling ;) ).

But there are no guarantees either way. You could request to single-branch MI and end up in the chemical corps for example. "Needs of the Army" and all that. So I recommend you roll the dice on the branch detail. Let the Army know what you want, and see what happens. Whatever you end up being branched, be glad that you have been given the opportunity to serve your country as a commissioned officer, and be the best <insert branch here> 2LT you can be.

By the way, Signal Corps is a very good branch, it was #2 on my combat support picks when I got commissioned. I just tossed that earlier jab in there for the benefit of my good friend Freefalling, who was a signal corps officer back in the day.

If you had a specialty on commission (linguist Par exemple) would that assist in getting into MI?

 

[Marauder06]

I'm not sure exactly how it works these days, but I kind of doubt it would matter. When I got commissioned I don't think they dug down to that degree of specificity on each cadet. It was GPA, where you came out on the order of merit list in your ROTC program, and how you did at Advanced Camp.

 

[Crusader74]

I'm not sure exactly how it works these days, but I kind of doubt it would matter. When I got commissioned I don't think they dug down to that degree of specificity on each cadet. It was GPA, where you came out on the order of merit list in your ROTC program, and how you did at Advanced Camp.

Cheers Mara.

 

[f12E5H]

My 2 cents...

While I realize it does rely on the individual to a great extent, my personal experience has been much better with MI officers that were prior branch infantry. I haven't been particularly impressed by the MI O1 to O2 gang who spend most of their time trying to cover up the fact that they don't know their jobs. I just recently came back from an Army INTEL school that had a plethora of LTs and the only one that stood out was a ranger tabbed infantry butterbar. All the MI officers just lollygagged together talking about high paying civilian jobs they could get, while blatantly cheating through the course and then complaining to instructors when they failed exams or hands on evaluations. The infantry officer got down to business and came out on top without having to resort to either. The best OIC i've had to date was an O3 MI officer prior branch infantry.

Of the few O4 OICs I've had, one was a prior enlisted analyst who did a straight shot through MI branch. He pretty much just stayed in his office his entire tour and would only come out during the occasional field problem. Even then, what he would contribute was so horribly out of date (>30 years) Korean War type stuff that it would be marginally beneficial. Didn't really foster training or care about the mission as long as nobody bothered him.

Other O4 was prior branch field artillery - that man was like the used car salesman of intel, running around selling his wares to all the O5s+ that would listen, which was actually terrific when half the battle is trying to stay relevant in big army units that don't care. It definitely worked though, the 2 had good funding and actually got to produce some really cool products during OIF.

From what I hear the intel course for initial MI branch is pretty much identical to the MI captain's career course. The biggest difference is going to be the experience you gain prior to O3, and I think being able to take different perspectives on your job will help you out later on down the line. Don't underestimate the value of credibility either, it matters a lot in a combat arms unit ;)

 

[moobob]

Just to add a little detail to my post months ago since this thread was just resurrected... These observations come from the vacuum of my short time in (9 years). However, I have had a wide variety of assignments and have seen a lot of this across the board. MI does tend to have a lot of officers that think coming in that they are on the fast track to being a cool guy at an alphabet soup government agency, then come to realize that (Army) MI is 99% driven by enlisted and warrant officers. It can be an uphill battle for junior MI O's to keep a good attitude and learn how to (eventually) bring something to the table. The best ones I've known were prior Infantry officers who had a good understanding of how operations work. Even with that, you need a good mentor and that's not always available. It's hard to learn anything relevant about MI when you're an MI Branch 2LT whose first job is to be a Company XO, the Battalion Maintenance Officer, S-1, or anywhere else in the myriad of places I've seen young MI officers work.

I've also observed that a large portion of MI has weak leadership skills, either due to their personalities, or due to the fact that there aren't a whole lot of opportunities to "learn" good leadership. Being a fire team and squad leader is more conducive to that than being a Sergeant in an S-2 shop with an LT and one junior soldier where your primary function is to renew people's clearances and mail passport applications. Not saying you can't learn leadership in an office environment... just that it's more challenging as a junior leader to learn in that type of environment. Not all MI jobs work in an office, but you get my point here.

On the officer side, I tend to like the ones that come in after a branch detail more often than not. I'm not saying that's the best path. I really don't know. On the enlisted side, coming in later is hit or miss. A lot of mid/senior NCOs reclassifying into the field do not know how to put their ego aside and realize they just entered a world they know nothing about. I've met maybe two that came in as an E-6 or higher that did that and within a few years turned out to be excellent MI soldiers. The rest have been huge headaches and a liability... then of course, ride the work of their subordinates and are viewed as a success by everyone except the career MI soldiers that have to suffer under them. That last sentence is a summary of the 35M MOS as a whole if anyone is considering going into it.

Reclassifying from one intelligence discipline to another is a much easier transition.

 

[AWP]

By the way, Signal Corps is a very good branch, it was #2 on my combat support picks when I got commissioned. I just tossed that earlier jab in there for the benefit of my good friend Freefalling, who was a signal corps officer back in the day.

This just appeared on my Alerts...it only took 4 months.

Signal? You couldn't pay me to go Signal on AD. rv808 is a SIGO as I recall and he has a much better perspective on it, but conventional Signal is broken IMO. If I were a SIGO on AD, I would beat on the door of every SOF or "unique" unit out there until I found a job. SF, 112th, JCSE, WHCA, 160th, JCU, the 75th, etc.

And Signal in the Guard? It is even worse there. I'd only take Signal to either A) land a job in an SF SIGDET or LRS support role or B) Just to take a commission....and either of the two would allow me to drop a packet to make a run at 18A. A Guard Signal O after CPT has a bleak future indeed.

Enlisted is a somewhat different game for the AD guys, but I'd also make tracks to go to one of the above mentioned units ASAP.

If someone were to enlist today into Signal, I would recommend 25C or 25U with an Opt. 40 contract or 25S with BAC or Opt. 40 in their contract (if you can obtain the latter as a Sierra). 2-3 years after AIT those choices would open a ton of doors in the SOF community whether you remained 25 series or "upgraded" into 18E or a SMU.

 

[goon175]

If I were going to carry a radio around, it would either be as a 35P (whch im switching to) in a SOF role or a 13F in the 75th.

 

[x SF med]

.... where you came out on the order of merit list in your ROTC program, and how you did at Advanced Camp.

Recondo! That was one thing that ticked off my PMS... I was in the top 10% of my cycle at Advanced Camp, Glowing CTLT ER's, and was in the top 10% of my Airborne Class (never figured the criterial for that one out...) and them spurned the O Corps and went to SF... he was a Ranger, Pathfinder, COL with a CIB, SS, BS-V and PH....