MK 12, Anybody used it?
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Carried it and used it my first trip. Nice piece. Good glass. A marvel of modern engineering.
But.
It's neither fish nor fowl. It's heavier than I think it needs to be. Any weight saved on the ammo is lost on the weapon. It lacks the punch at long range and penetration of a heavier caliber.
I ended up going with a two-tier system. My "inside voice" was a Mk18 CQBR w/ an eotech and a can. My "outside voice" was a regular, rack-grade, plastic-stocked M14, to which I added a Millet 1-4x scope and couple of small sections of rail for a grip-pod, a light and a PEQ. Stoked it with M993 AP. It consistently shot "minute-of-hajji" as far as I could shoot. It was my "go-to" piece for almost everything short of a knife fight.
As to the Mk12? If it was all there was available in the arms room for that range-band, and I was assured a steady supply of match ammo for it and I was going to have lots of other people around, I might take it.
Beats a sharp stick.
But.
It's neither fish nor fowl. It's heavier than I think it needs to be. Any weight saved on the ammo is lost on the weapon. It lacks the punch at long range and penetration of a heavier caliber.
I ended up going with a two-tier system. My "inside voice" was a Mk18 CQBR w/ an eotech and a can. My "outside voice" was a regular, rack-grade, plastic-stocked M14, to which I added a Millet 1-4x scope and couple of small sections of rail for a grip-pod, a light and a PEQ. Stoked it with M993 AP. It consistently shot "minute-of-hajji" as far as I could shoot. It was my "go-to" piece for almost everything short of a knife fight.
As to the Mk12? If it was all there was available in the arms room for that range-band, and I was assured a steady supply of match ammo for it and I was going to have lots of other people around, I might take it.
Beats a sharp stick.
Diesel_Actual
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Do the MK 18 CQBRs, used by Army SOF, come from Crane NSWC or are they TACOM(or otherwise) acquired??
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Mk 12 is a killer rig IMO. Mount a Docter at a 45 and you've basically got yourself a 3-gun open class rifle. You've got a 0-100 optic and 100-600 optic, awesome muzzle brake, respectable trigger, and full length hand guard- just like an open gun. Mk12 on the flat range will dust M4s, slide the bipod back a bit so you can grip all the way out on the hand guard for control.
A word on the scope/docter (or trijicon, micro, whatever)- You're best off not messing with magnification since it's a 2nd focal plane scope. Also, 600m hold with Mk211 is 5 mils so there's no need to dial elevation. Accuracy first 12"/10" drill is deadly with the Mk12 scope and will get you hits on an torso to 600 without fail, if you aren't familiar with it PM me or just ask in here.
A word on the scope/docter (or trijicon, micro, whatever)- You're best off not messing with magnification since it's a 2nd focal plane scope. Also, 600m hold with Mk211 is 5 mils so there's no need to dial elevation. Accuracy first 12"/10" drill is deadly with the Mk12 scope and will get you hits on an torso to 600 without fail, if you aren't familiar with it PM me or just ask in here.
I actually ended up making somewhat of a hybrid. The only reason I was really looking at the mk12 was for something that could be patrolled with as a primary but still have a bit more accuracy than the standard M4, for those times when you find yourself needing to accurately engage past 300 but under 6 or 7. We ended up getting some 14in free floating RIS barrels so I basically took that as my upper the mk 12 scope as my optic and MAYBE changed out the standard trigger for the mk 12 trigger. Ended up with a pretty compact and lite weight package. Haven't been able to test it out fully but from what I've seen so far it will consistently hit 300 yard head shots. And with the scope able to get down to 3x it's not bad at fairly close range either.
For the grunts it's the DM rifle for them. And we use the Mk 11 as snipers. But we love trying to get them for our team. We have one right now with us.
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The only hang up I have with it is through barriers. 77gr is good stuff but not through glass or sheet metal. Mk348 SOST is the answer, but it's still not the same as a 175gr or 190 gr match king- and not available to most folks. You also lose 180m or so of super sonic flight.
If I had to carry one gun for all situations (CQB through sniper) it would be the SPR with a reflex sight mounted at the 2 o'clock. However, that's not the case, so I never carry it. I usually have my 10.5 M4 plus a Mk13 if I think I'll need a long gun, or if i think the majority of the work will be at intermediate distances I'll carry the 110.
If I had to carry one gun for all situations (CQB through sniper) it would be the SPR with a reflex sight mounted at the 2 o'clock. However, that's not the case, so I never carry it. I usually have my 10.5 M4 plus a Mk13 if I think I'll need a long gun, or if i think the majority of the work will be at intermediate distances I'll carry the 110.
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Why not the M-14 EBR? and 7.62 to reach out and touch a haji
I like the M14, but I would not want to carry it up and down mountains. The newer AR type platforms are made of light weight aluminum alloys that shed a lot of weight, as well as the availability of parts. We dead-lined two M14’s in Iraq and did not get them repaired until we had returned CONUS, something to do with NSN and parts ordering issues.
Unless I am getting some really long range out of it, I would opt for a 5.56 rifle. If I have to pack the extra weight, it had better damn well reach out and touch. IMO 7.62 doesn’t give that much more of an advantage over 5.56, not enough to cause me to carry twice the weight. Now going back to the topic of 300WM/338 then yeah, now we are talking. But for a general purpose rifle or DMR type (0 to 600) I will take 5.56, especially if I have to maneuver in mountainous terrain.
Something else to keep in mind is the ballistic effects in high angle fire as it applies in mountainous terrain. An enemy target may be 800 yards out, but if the angle is extreme, you could be shooting him with the ballistic effects of a 300 yard shot.
Unless I am getting some really long range out of it, I would opt for a 5.56 rifle. If I have to pack the extra weight, it had better damn well reach out and touch. IMO 7.62 doesn’t give that much more of an advantage over 5.56, not enough to cause me to carry twice the weight. Now going back to the topic of 300WM/338 then yeah, now we are talking. But for a general purpose rifle or DMR type (0 to 600) I will take 5.56, especially if I have to maneuver in mountainous terrain.
Something else to keep in mind is the ballistic effects in high angle fire as it applies in mountainous terrain. An enemy target may be 800 yards out, but if the angle is extreme, you could be shooting him with the ballistic effects of a 300 yard shot.
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I see.. But as a comparison to the MK 12 how does/would it fair out?
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It's heavier and doesn't handle anywhere near as well. The controls of an AR type gun are pretty hard to beat. When it comes to mag changes, safety manipulation, etc- it's all AR. It's evolution, the M16 replaced the M14 for a reason and has compiled many improvements since then.
As far as accuracy, I don't know. I know M21s didn't win any awards in that category. However, there are some NRA high power M14s that are awesome. The M14 EBRs I've handled have all been theater property and less than well cared for. That being said, I'd still assume that the Mk12 is more accurate inside of 6o0 with both guns being in new condition.
As far as accuracy, I don't know. I know M21s didn't win any awards in that category. However, there are some NRA high power M14s that are awesome. The M14 EBRs I've handled have all been theater property and less than well cared for. That being said, I'd still assume that the Mk12 is more accurate inside of 6o0 with both guns being in new condition.
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