MoH to be awarded to SOCM Slabinski

And on that note, this thread is done with generic discipline problems in today's military. If anyone would like to discuss it further, start a new thread...if we don't already have one out there.

Sorry about that @AWP . I picked up on that earlier and should have halted it then. This is actually a pretty good thread with some interesting and professional debate so I set it right.

The dozen or so posts that got us off track have been moved to this thread:
Low Recruit Discipline Prompts Army to Redesign Basic Training

The last few posts were debating lack of discipline in the Military. Good as anywhere I spose.
 
Referencing the video from this thread:
Tech. Sergeant John Chapman To Be Awarded The Medal Of Honor

Can someone help me understand why Chappie ran directly towards the bunkers but the SEALS didn't? He basically went straight at them from the get go while the SEALS ran in a different direction.

Watching the RPG strike again and Brad Crose and the other Rangers dying as they came off the ramp...the last few moments are hard to watch.
 
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Watching the RPG strike again and Brad Crose and the other Rangers dying as they came off the ramp...the last few moments are hard to watch.

The video truly highlights just how heartbreaking the situation was.
Chapman was killed less than 3 minutes before the QRF arrived, but if he hadn't exposed himself the entire QRF may have been wiped out. True heroism right there.
 
...

Can someone help me understand why Chappie ran directly towards the bunkers but the SEALS didn't? He basically went straight at them from the get go while the SEALS ran in a different direction.

...
Because warriors do warrior shit. I think he just oriented much faster, and he picked ‘near ambush- push through’ instead of ‘break contact’.

Unthinkable choices on that mountain. I just like to think that Chap embraced violence and made the choice to go down swinging before other people did.
 
Because warriors do warrior shit. I think he just oriented much faster, and he picked ‘near ambush- push through’ instead of ‘break contact’.

Unthinkable choices on that mountain. I just like to think that Chap embraced violence and made the choice to go down swinging before other people did.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what he intended. If they're close, the quickest way to get them to stop shooting at you is to kill them, assault directly through the near ambush. It may also be that the near bunker, if he could clear it, would afford him better cover and allow him to continue to fight. Whatever the case, he said fuck this and went at it full badass. He was some man, all right.
 
Whatever the case, he said fuck this and went at it full badass. He was some man, all right.

Regardless of what was going through his head--hell, he may have been operating on muscle memory and innate operant conditioning more than 'thinking'--he made a move that saved lives. He lived up to his motto and core values, and was utterly full badass.
 
Referencing the video from this thread:
Tech. Sergeant John Chapman To Be Awarded The Medal Of Honor

Can someone help me understand why Chappie ran directly towards the bunkers but the SEALS didn't? He basically went straight at them from the get go while the SEALS ran in a different direction.

Watching the RPG strike again and Brad Crose and the other Rangers dying as they came off the ramp...the last few moments are hard to watch.
A near ambush like that, there’s no other option other than “diddle diddle straight up the middle.” Numerous bunkers and no shoulder fired weapons to suppress them doesn’t leave you many options save for getting within grenade range, and that’s exactly what he did.
 
And they saw he was dead. So they moved.

Chapman continued to fight by himself, while the SEALs ran down the side of the mountain. Then they blocked his MOH for goddamn ever, and awarded the team lead a MOH for straight botching a mission and leaving a dude in the fight, alone, on top of a mountain. I wonder if he was alive today, what he would have to say about the US Navy SEAL community?
 
Looking at things after the fact, lets you see things in a different light.
Leaving him behind, Sucks major ass, and (I'm assuming) everyone one of those guys, is haunted by that day. Even though the decision they made, was probably made as being the right one at the time, with everything that was happening.
But' blocking or impeding Chapman's MOH. Is absolutely BS! to save face is even worse!!
Shit happens in when the shit hits the fan. Bad decisions are sometimes made, and they have to dealt with.
I can only base my opinion form the little info i came across.
But based on that.
It is an injustice to deny Champman the MOH.
And the SEAL community isn't doing its self any favors trying to save face, rather than accepting they days events.
 
Looking at things after the fact, lets you see things in a different light.
Leaving him behind, Sucks major ass, and (I'm assuming) everyone one of those guys, is haunted by that day. Even though the decision they made, was probably made as being the right one at the time, with everything that was happening.
But' blocking or impeding Chapman's MOH. Is absolutely BS! to save face is even worse!!
Shit happens in when the shit hits the fan. Bad decisions are sometimes made, and they have to dealt with.
I can only base my opinion form the little info i came across.
But based on that.
It is an injustice to deny Champman the MOH.
And the SEAL Leadership isn't doing its self any favors trying to save face, rather than accepting they days events.

FIFY
 
So you've seen specific emails or other evidence of this?

The likelihood of an email chain saying "hey lets block Chapmans MOH" is slim to none (and I doubt that was ever discussed in that manner). NSW disagreeing with the official narrative of events and disputing specifics of the UAV feed video with the USAF is what supposedly held up Chapman's MOH (from what I've read). This was done so NSW could save face, as their official narrative was that Chapman was dead, and the TL cut losses and got the rest of his team out. The now well known reality, is that Chapman was left alive, fighting while the rest of the team bailed. Only the Team, Slabinski and Chapman, know what truly happened. What is known, is that the battle didn't go down as Slabinski reported it, Chapman was left alone in the fight and continued to fight for an hour on his own, including hand to hand, while rest of the team bailed down the mountain. What is known is that AFSOF and NSW disagreed over the official narrative, this holding up Chapman's MOH for almost 16 years and that Slabinski received the MOH on a mission where one of his men fell out of a helicopter and was left, an attempt to recover his man, lead to Chapman being left on a mountain alive, in a fight, while the rest of the team bailed.

Now you could argue that his attempt to reinsert his team to recover Roberts was heroic. I'll go with that, I think it was, but the leaving of another man is a bit odd, considering that community claims they never leave a man behind. That said, I get it, it was a shit show, he was under extreme stress, team is getting chewed up and he claims he checked Chapman's body and assessed he was dead. But they left a man who was alive and in the fight behind, not a dead guy, a live teammate... And he got the MOH for it. I don't know what was going on in Slabinski mind, what he thought, or why he made his decisions. I won't judge him on that. I think his community should have came clean after the fog of war had been lifted and they saw what actually happened. Simply put, they fucked up, they argued it with the USAF to save face, they held up Chapamns MOH, and than put Slabinski in for a MOH, knowing he left a man behind, alive, alone and in the fight.

My$.02
 
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