MoH to be awarded to SOCM Slabinski

[Diamondback 2/2]

Every E7 and up got a "deployment" BSM. The only dudes I personally saw get a BSM that were E6 and below, were KIA or did some pretty extraordinary heroic stuff. Good buddy of mine pulled 7 dudes out of a burning bradley while under fire and received burns from it. He got a BSM with V. If he wouldn't have been a SPC, I believe he would have got a much, much higher award...

But what ever, at the end of the day, anybody from our generation with any significant awards, always gets the follow on questions of who did you deploy with and what was your rank. Army's award system is totally fucked IMHO.

 

[Marauder06]

It seems that every couple of years, the site gets worked up about BSMs. A BSM sans "V" is simply a wartime MSM. In fact, if you're downrange I don't even think you can get an MSM (that might have been a unit-level policy, though). An MSM is a high bar for an achievement award. It seems unlikely to me that soldiers without significant levels of both responsibility and achievement would receive such an award.

As noted, the views on BSMs vary between the sevices. My Marine XO on my last deployment told me to not even bother writing him up for a BSM because it wouldn't make it through the Marine side of the joint house.

http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/a7/d3/aadc667d406180218895d103e505/milper-message-17-095.pdf

 

[DA SWO]

It seems that every couple of years, the site gets worked up about BSMs. A BSM sans "V" is simply a wartime MSM. In fact, if you're downrange I don't even think you can get an MSM (that might have been a unit-level policy, though). An MSM is a high bar for an achievement award. It seems unlikely to me that soldiers without significant levels of both responsibility and achievement would receive such an award.

As noted, the views on BSMs vary between the sevices. My Marine XO on my last deployment told me to not even bother writing him up for a BSM because it wouldn't make it through the Marine side of the joint house.

http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/a7/d3/aadc667d406180218895d103e505/milper-message-17-095.pdf

IIRC the policy changed so guys/gals outside the "danger Zone" but still in the combat zone (like an airbase in the UAE) can get MSM's and BSM's for those locations are an E-9/W-5/O-6+ award.

 

[Teufel]

It seems that every couple of years, the site gets worked up about BSMs. A BSM sans "V" is simply a wartime MSM. In fact, if you're downrange I don't even think you can get an MSM (that might have been a unit-level policy, though). An MSM is a high bar for an achievement award. It seems unlikely to me that soldiers without significant levels of both responsibility and achievement would receive such an award.

As noted, the views on BSMs vary between the sevices. My Marine XO on my last deployment told me to not even bother writing him up for a BSM because it wouldn't make it through the Marine side of the joint house.

http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/a7/d3/aadc667d406180218895d103e505/milper-message-17-095.pdf

The Marine Corps actually tightened the award policy on Bronze Stars several years ago. Nominees must ‘be exposed to the combat environment’ to qualify, i.e. leave the wire. Otherwise you get an MSM. The Marine Corps will also review all joint awards per this policy and often adjust the award level.

 

[Cookie_]

This is the problem. Medals for valor are supposed to be the same across the Department of Defense but each of the services have different criteria for awarding them. Special Operations Forces tend to have an easier time getting awards because they have greater advocacy, visibility, and don’t have to submit awards through a conventional forces awards chain. NSW hands out awards like the Boy Scouts hands out merit badges. Everyone is frustrated because the DOD declined to upgrade guys like SgtMaj Kasal, Brian Chontosh, Brady Gustafson, and several Marines who literally jumped on grenades to save their brothers, and instead decided to push for this controversial upgrade. That’s the problem. Rafael Peralta died clutching a grenade to his chest. Where is his Medal of Honor?

To add on with Peralta; maybe Alwyn Cashe, who was mortally wounded rescuing his troops from a burning Bradley, while he was on fire, will finally get his SS upgraded as well. Hopefully this review the Pentagon (is doing? has finished?) will create better guidelines for all services on the process.

- For anyone who wants the full story on SFC Cashe, It’s 2018 And SFC Alwyn Cashe Still Hasn’t Been Awarded The Medal Of Honor. Why?

 

[Teufel]

To add on with Peralta; maybe Alwyn Cashe, who was mortally wounded rescuing his troops from a burning Bradley, while he was on fire, will finally get his SS upgraded as well. Hopefully this review the Pentagon (is doing? has finished?) will create better guidelines for all services on the process.

- For anyone who wants the full story on SFC Cashe, It’s 2018 And SFC Alwyn Cashe Still Hasn’t Been Awarded The Medal Of Honor. Why?

I actually wanted to mention him but couldn’t remember his name.

 

[ThunderHorse]

My old unit is returning from Spartan Shield, the current S1 or seems to be jamming that thing full of pictures. Mostly CoCs and promotions. They handed out like 100 ARCOMs the other day I shit you not.

 

[DA SWO]

To add on with Peralta; maybe Alwyn Cashe, who was mortally wounded rescuing his troops from a burning Bradley, while he was on fire, will finally get his SS upgraded as well. Hopefully this review the Pentagon (is doing? has finished?) will create better guidelines for all services on the process.

- For anyone who wants the full story on SFC Cashe, It’s 2018 And SFC Alwyn Cashe Still Hasn’t Been Awarded The Medal Of Honor. Why?

BSM's have been watered down so much that Management can not recognize real valor.

 

[NikNifSik]

It's super awesome that we've now reached a point point where MoH receipents are openly attacked.

I personally respect the fact that Newsweek was willing to question the veracity of the SEALs "official" story. From what I know of the events, it seems a great dishonor has been done to Chapman. Any news outlet questioning the SEALs is at risk with an American populace that feels they are without sin. Newsweek was willing to do it, and in my opinion did it objectively.

We have allowed and encouraged a culture that throws medals at failed missions. A positive spin is being put on events that should be under the microscope for lesson learned.

 

[AWP]

It's super awesome that we've now reached a point point where MoH receipents are openly attacked.

MoH recipients eat their young. I've seen several interviews where guys openly called out others with the medal for their post-award antics... and a few make the statement "how did he 'earn' that." I've seen some where the culture is hammered by them as well. The award is politicized within the military and has been for years. Is some of this is either coming to light or maybe the occurrences have increased? I don't know.

We put these men on a pedestal for their deeds, but they are still men and subject to all of man's weaknesses.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

We put these men on a pedestal for their deeds, but they are still men and subject to all of man's weaknesses.

See also: Ira Hayes

 

[Marauder06]

I get why Chapman got The Medal. I'm still not sure why the guy who left him behind got one.

 

[Kraut783]

Military Politics...

 

[BloodStripe]

I get why Chapman got The Medal. I'm still not sure why the guy who left him behind got one.

Have you seen the entirety of the drone footage?

 

[Marauder06]

I think so.

 

[Gunz]

Yes.

 

[BloodStripe]

There is the offical drone footage. Im sure it speaks to one narrative over the other.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

During this bold attack, he was struck and temporarily incapacitated by enemy fire.

Despite his wounds, Chapman regained his faculties and continued to fight relentlessly, sustaining a violent engagement with multiple enemy fighters before paying the ultimate sacrifice.

And that statement right there is why I will forever question the MOH for the SEAL.

 

[amlove21]

And that statement right there is why I will forever question the MOH for the SEAL.

Meaning- ‘fighting from enemy fortified position to enemy fortified position alone, always outnumbered and often out gunned, Chappy continued his fight to get back to his team sometimes hand to hand. Only at the very end of his ammunition was he wounded from a blind location and finally overwhelmed.’

Those are my words from what I’ve seen on the footage I have.

Chappy is a fucking warrior. Glad he got the recognition he deserved, regardless of politics.

 

[AWP]

And on that note, this thread is done with generic discipline problems in today's military. If anyone would like to discuss it further, start a new thread...if we don't already have one out there.