MoH to be awarded to SOCM Slabinski

[CDG]

I agree, there’s probably a bunch of guys that deserve awards. But I don’t think that means both men don’t deserve it.

What makes you think Slabinski deserves it? If Chapman deserves it for being wounded, left behind, and fighting on, sometimes hand to hand, until he was ultimately killed, then how does Slabinski deserve it when he's the one that left him behind? This is the MOH we're talking about.

 

[256]

What makes you think Slabinski deserves it? If Chapman deserves it for being wounded, left behind, and fighting on, sometimes hand to hand, until he was ultimately killed, then how does Slabinski deserve it when he's the one that left him behind? This is the MOH we're talking about.

I’m not going to say why I believe he deserved the award because my opinion was formulated by what I was informed by someone with close knowledge of the situation. But, there were a bunch of things wrong with that op.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I’m not going to say why I believe he deserved the award because my opinion was formulated by what I was informed by someone with close knowledge of the situation.

Then you probably should not have said anything at all. It’s wrong to put “I know more than the rest of you” out there and then say, “but it’s classified.”

Which is pretty much what you just did.

 

[CDG]

I’m not going to say why I believe he deserved the award because my opinion was formulated by what I was informed by someone with close knowledge of the situation. But, there were a bunch of things wrong with that op.

LMAO. Ok man. Whatthefuckever.

 

[256]

Then you probably should not have said anything at all. It’s wrong to put “I know more than the rest of you” out there and then say, “but it’s classified.”

Which is pretty much what you just did.

No, I’m just not going to air the information I was told because it’s not mine to share. It’s their opinion and they may look at these boards.

 

[AWP]

No, I’m just not going to air the information I was told because it’s not mine to share. It’s their opinion and they may look at these boards.

Look, your info may be 100% correct, but we don't like to traffic in "I know, but can't say why, so trust me" information.

LMAO. Ok man. Whatthefuckever.

C'mon, man. You can be dismissive without this.

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Break, break: I don't like locking threads, but we need to tighten our shot groups on this one.

 

[256]

Look, your info may be 100% correct, but we don't like to traffic in "I know, but can't say why, so trust me" information.



C'mon, man. You can be dismissive without this.

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Break, break: I don't like locking threads, but we need to tighten our shot groups on this one.

Rgr, I get that as well. I explained some of my information to @CDG in a PM. I am hoping that dissolves this as an issue.

 

[DA SWO]

He crawled over what he thought was Chappy and checked him. He more than likely found Roberts but thought it was Chappy. Seeing he wasn't breathing they escaped off that mountain with severely wounded other command members.

This is what I think happened.^
How many wounded did the Master Chief slide down that mountain?
I think the Master Chief deserved his award, and I also think Chapman deserves his.
Some of my NCO's have seen the raw pred footage, and they think he was alive and killing until the end; and I have no reason not to believe them.
Anaconda was fucked up from the start, and this is just another small shit show in a large shit show.

 

[AWP]

Honestly, I think Slab crawled over Roberts and thought he was Chappy.

The problem is the Pred footage supports one narrative over the other....and one narrative is based upon the latter not existing.

Shit show.

 

[256]

Shit show.

Agreed, shit show. The video part is tough because you’re seeing what happened. But seeing what happened vs understanding every detail is completely different. It’s similar to Police footage. I’ve had people complain about me, watch the video with my boss and point to the video and say, “that’s not what happened.” It’s all perspective and how we run the footage of what we’re seeing vs our own set of values and experiences. Another good example would be eye-witness accounts. So many times eye-witness accounts are total shit.

 

[Kraut783]

These points, brought up earlier, is what I have a problem with...after all this is the MOH

- ST6 (Slabinski) got to the injured Chapman and under fire, made the determination that Chapman was dead, and pulled back; leaving Chapman.
- After being left, Chapman got back into the fight and was eventually killed.
- SEAL's refuse to believe Chapman was not dead when they left him

 

[256]

An underestimation of the enemy and too much confidence in the people in play.

 

[BloodStripe]

They had no idea that Chechens had such a well thought out of bunker system there. I don't think it was underestimation but more so a they walked into a kill zone with good fields of fire from the enemy.

 

[Kraut783]

Rushed the mission...and failed to get good eyes on the point they were going to occupy, the DShK wasn't hidden...just overlooked on the rushed evaluation of the position.

But, hindsight is always 20/20 and the mission/insertion is a separate issue....

 

[Gunz]

...Also, observations or opinions that come during stress can’t literally be taken for fact. People don’t interpret things correctly under stress. He probably thought he was dead. Do you think he was just like, “f that dude, I’m out.” I really doubt it. Ask someone to say the ABCs during a gun fight, ain’t going to happen.

No...we couldn't "say the ABCs"... but amazingly we were able to call up fire missions, medevacs, close air, perform first aid, conduct maneuver under fire and never leave our dead or wounded to the enemy while executing a tactical withdrawal during heated contacts with superior forces. And we weren't Navy SEALs. Takur Ghar might've been a fucking shit show but it was't Custer's Last Stand. Superbly trained people were on that mountain, people who's business it is to be able to say their ABCs and much more during a gunfight.

 

[256]

No...we couldn't "say the ABCs"... but amazingly we were able to call up fire missions, medevacs, close air, perform first aid, conduct maneuver under fire and never leave our dead or wounded to the enemy while executing a tactical withdrawal during heated contacts with superior forces. And we weren't Navy SEALs. Takur Ghar might've been a fucking shit show but it was't Custer's Last Stand. Superbly trained people were on that mountain, people who's business it is to be able to say their ABCs and much more during a gunfight.

Brother, I Understand completely. But people have also called incorrect fire missions, medevaces, close air support. It’s a mistake, they happen all the time. A soldier in my company was killed in a incorrect CAS mission, CPL Clouse (2-12 INF, 4th BDE). He was with SOF soldiers. It’s nothing against them, it was a mistake. It just is. Fog of war. Now that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be investigated and figured out, but it was a mistake.

 

[Teufel]

Brother, I Understand completely. But people have also called incorrect fire missions, medevaces, close air support. It’s a mistake, they happen all the time. A soldier in my company was killed in a incorrect CAS mission, CPL Clouse (2-12 INF, 4th BDE). He was with SOF soldiers. It’s nothing against them, it was a mistake. It just is. Fog of war. Now that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be investigated and figured out, but it was a mistake.

Did they give him the MOH?

 

[256]

No, he wasn’t. Seems some people believe Slab deserved it and some don’t. There’s an arguement for the bigger mistake the bigger the award, but I believe they both did exceptional things. I also believe NSW members have been their own worse enemy. Maybe Officers in NSW are afraid of the men they command. I don’t agree that because some people didn’t get awards others shouldn’t either. And it shouldn’t be a surprise that maybe the people that award the MOH have a hard on for NSW, just like everyone else. I think I added that it was my opinion.

 

[Marauder06]

An underestimation of the enemy and too much confidence in the people in play.

Just a note on your signature line:

If one hopes to be considered a leader in deed more than in just a word, he or she had better learn to deliberately and consciously shun the spotlight and embrace the humility of selfless service.
- Major Thomas Greer 1st SFOD

MAJ Greer was PNG'd from the SOF community, and rightly so, after seeking, embracing, and profiting from "the spotlight." I therefore find this quote from him deeply ironic.

 

[Teufel]

No, he wasn’t. Seems some people believe Slab deserved it and some don’t. There’s an arguement for the bigger mistake the bigger the award, but I believe they both did exceptional things. I also believe NSW members have been their own worse enemy. Maybe Officers in NSW are afraid of the men they command. I don’t agree that because some people didn’t get awards others shouldn’t either. And it shouldn’t be a surprise that maybe the people that award the MOH have a hard on for NSW, just like everyone else. I think I added that it was my opinion.

This is the problem. Medals for valor are supposed to be the same across the Department of Defense but each of the services have different criteria for awarding them. Special Operations Forces tend to have an easier time getting awards because they have greater advocacy, visibility, and don’t have to submit awards through a conventional forces awards chain. NSW hands out awards like the Boy Scouts hands out merit badges. Everyone is frustrated because the DOD declined to upgrade guys like SgtMaj Kasal, Brian Chontosh, Brady Gustafson, and several Marines who literally jumped on grenades to save their brothers, and instead decided to push for this controversial upgrade. That’s the problem. Rafael Peralta died clutching a grenade to his chest. Where is his Medal of Honor?