National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (and now ICE)

[Raptor]

Yes politics should stay out of art

I disagree, not every piece of art needs to be political and a lot of times it is forced, but while I obviously can't speak for everyone, some of my favorite movies, games and songs/bands have had some underlying political elements and been enhanced by it (Star Wars, Fallout and System of a Down are some examples).

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Local police are putting Minneapolis on warning...

With threat of Minneapolis police being disbanded, Anoka County sheriff says 'many agencies' don't want to go back to the city and restore order | Bring Me The News

 

[Kaldak]

You want the police abolished, show them what happens? Is that the tactic here?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Manufacturer that burned as Minneapolis protests turned violent plans to relocate from city

I think there's a song for this:

 

[R.Caerbannog]

Figured this fits in this thread or the all politics thread. It's about the weather underground and their goals for the US. These are the ideological founders behind movements like ANTIFA and the BLM.

 

[LimaPanther]

I try and stay out of politics, that is why I am an Independent, but have you noticed that ever city that had riots were Democrats and have been Demo for centuries. They are also the same ones that want to disband the police. Must be something there that their citizens are not paying attention to.

 

[SaintKP]

It's more complex than just a base level of whether its a red or blue city. You have underfunded and under supported Police Departments in a lot of these cities, often fighting an up hill battle with the governing bodies of said cities, naturally this leads to a lower quality of prospects because for one no one wants to work a job where their bosses hate them. Not to mention they can't receive the proper training to deal with things whether it be a high intensity situation and how to deescalate, or something as simple as decompressing and working through personal issues after a rough patrol. This leads to the a LEO who shouldn't be in a split second decision situation where someones life is at stake, nor can they effectively know when to pump the brakes and realize that maybe they passed excessive force about a minute ago and you're cruising headfirst into police brutality.

Now onto the constituents of a lot of these cities, a vast majority are low income, and a majority of which happen to be minorities. A lot of these people are coming into a system where the likelihood of them 'getting out' is so damn slim that most will turn to illegal activities once they come of age because working fast food sure as hell doesn't pay the bills. Now because of how our prison and justice system are setup, it's not made for reform, it's made for incarceration and to hobble you for the rest of your life. So a lot of these guys by the age of 20 have most likely been in and out of the system. Either on diversion, straight up juvie, or worst case scenario prison/jail. What options do they have coming out, realistically, aside from crime do they have? Fast food won't hire if you have a felony, construction and factory work? That's not a guarantee and most won't be able to get into it unless they have an inside guy.

While there are community programs that specifically take in ex convicts and people with criminal history that are looking for work and they do an amazing job with helping those people get back on their feet. But to put it simply, there isn't enough of those organizations to really make an impact.

So you have a judicial system whose aim is to arrest as many people as possible to fill out prisons, but not reform any of them. So they more often than not go back to crime. Which leads LE to specifically target those neighborhoods they deem 'High Risk' and the cycle continues. Leading to mistrust and resentment from the populace, as well as the police treating certain groups much more aggressively than others because of the past criminal history of said populace.

Let this cycle continue for 100+ years and you eventually get what we saw in Minneapolis.

There are a bunch of problems that lead to what happened, but two of the largest I'd say is Police funding and training as well as judicial reform. While there's progress being made, no one wants to really have that tough conversation and sit down at the table to hash everything out. How long until the next 'big one'? 1 year?

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

De-fund, disband, and sit back in disbelief.

 

[Florida173]

“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost come in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.”

― Milton Friedman

 

[Ooh-Rah]

This is becoming a National conversation and should probably have it’s own thread.

The George Floyd thread will continue for months with discussion of court proceedings and eventual verdict.

I’ll move “cop” related posts throughout the morning.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Any posts related to “disbanding police departments” can now be found in its own thread.

Future “Disband the Cops” thread

 

[RackMaster]

It's spread to Canada as well. Toronto is the biggest city I've seen talk about it and they already had a 20% budget decrease in recent year's. I find it ironic that the programs they want to divert funding have been asking for money for year's. Maybe if they took a pay cut to fund these other program's as well as funding law enforcement properly.

'Defund the police' movement gathers momentum in Canada

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Watching the Liberal Left fight over who is the most enlightened and least-racist is becoming almost Sports-like entertainment. I'm surprised he didn't make it yet one more "executive order" and just assume that "One Minnesota" would follow along.....

 

[Florida173]

George Floyd's death has become a catalyst for an international conversation related to police. I wouldn't have split the conversation.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

George Floyd's death has become a catalyst for an international conversation related to police. I wouldn't have split the conversation.

Agreed. But there are some topics that end up becoming 2 seperate conversations within the same thread and then become difficult to follow; as sometimes you cannot tell which topic a member is referring to when you want to reply.

 

[Blizzard]

This is an example of a minority viewpoint getting much more attention than it deserves. Not sure how or why they're getting attention; probably because it's an election year?!

If you believe polls (take your pick), none show more than ~15% support cuts to police funding, let alone disbanding. The only purpose I really see the discussion serving is to call out the most ridiculous of politicians; seems most are local, except for maybe AOC.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Nice to see Armed elements of BLM out in the open.

Black Lives Matter leader declares war on police

 

[Florida173]

Nice to see Armed elements of BLM out in the open.

Black Lives Matter leader declares war on police

You think this enables or creates another BLA movement like in the 70s?

 

[ThunderHorse]

You think this enables or creates another BLA movement like in the 70s?

I don't know. I know that the New Black Panthers were already armed.

So you have a judicial system whose aim is to arrest as many people as possible to fill out prisons, but not reform any of them. So they more often than not go back to crime. Which leads LE to specifically target those neighborhoods they deem 'High Risk' and the cycle continues. Leading to mistrust and resentment from the populace, as well as the police treating certain groups much more aggressively than others because of the past criminal history of said populace.

Let this cycle continue for 100+ years and you eventually get what we saw in Minneapolis.

Disagree. In the current clime you have Law Enforcement withdrawing their presence from "high risk" areas and that is how you end up with the neighborhoods in Baltimore, Chicago, Cincinnati, Detroit where crime runs the ville. Because the DA will campaign on "reform" but actually puts their cops at risk with their policies. Since the Freddie Gray Riots, Baltimore has cut police funding (and number of officers) and the violent crime rate and murder rate has climbed on a per capita basis as people have fled the city. Look at Detroit as an example, it's basically a dead city. Baltimore specifically has 150k less people than it did in 2015.

Now, many Democrats enacted really shitty policies when it came to crime over time. In the late 90s, early 2000s it was about being tough on crime. Martin O'Malley led this in Baltimore. If anything it made everything worse. But hey it got him elected governor and onto the national stage.

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

Nice to see Armed elements of BLM out in the open.

Black Lives Matter leader declares war on police

I'm not saying there aren't armed nutjobs in and around more than BLM black movements....

But The Daily Mail in my eyes reaally lacks credibility as a source.