National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (and now ICE)

amlove21 said:
That's a really long way to say, "What ICE is doing now might be questioned, but the answer has never been given by a higher court."

The aforementioned code isn't "deceiving" or "overly simple". The language posted does make something very clear; we are currently forced to have this conversation because Mayorkas and the previous administration created conditions that made enforcement of 1101, 1225, 1252(a) and 1252(c) unreasonable/impossible.

As always, I found the easiest fix.

If the previous admin didn't allow 10-20M illegals into the interior of the country with a summons for "sometime in the future", we wouldn't need ICE to do what they're doing now, and this conversation wouldn't need to happen. But, the handwrigning can continue because people cant see past thier nose.
Click to expand...

Agree that the situation made it boil over to this point, but we cannot just violate the fourth amendment routinely.

This kind of thing allows the slippery slope that will start spilling over into everyday law enforcement...not sure we want that in the long run.

but, this is just my two cents.....
 
Can we all at least agree that she and the group she was a part of, did nothing to make the situation better? And that her being there actively a part of it, was her own undoing that she herself is to blame for?

While we are at it, no one on social media saying she should not have been killed for it, has yet to give me an explanation when challenged, on how to stop a driver at close range from using their vehicle as a ram without directly taking out the driver. I've asked for sources, citations from actual events, SOP's, something that wasn't armchair second guessing on a fight or flight response and wasn't using fallacies, as no, the handgun won't stop the engine in time and is a bad choice to use for this, and taking out the tires is a myth and a very bad lie. No takers, as to what I expected since talk is cheap without subject matter expertise.
 
A good cop would have aimed for the passenger side 'b pillar'
...by targeting the passenger side, the round could have richoceted into the ignition switch and shut the car off
...THEN shoot the tires out
...THEN put a low pressure pistol round through the engine block
...THEN shoot the suspect in the leg to keep them from fleeing on foot

THEN - and ONLY then - If all of those measures fail, its ok to intentionally kill an innocent bystander that did absolutely wrong in cold blood

It's what I would have done if it I was in that situation.
 
The Quartermaster said:
Can we all at least agree that she and the group she was a part of, did nothing to make the situation better? And that her being there actively a part of it, was her own undoing that she herself is to blame for?

While we are at it, no one on social media saying she should not have been killed for it, has yet to give me an explanation when challenged, on how to stop a driver at close range from using their vehicle as a ram without directly taking out the driver. I've asked for sources, citations from actual events, SOP's, something that wasn't armchair second guessing on a fight or flight response and wasn't using fallacies, as no, the handgun won't stop the engine in time and is a bad choice to use for this, and taking out the tires is a myth and a very bad lie. No takers, as to what I expected since talk is cheap without subject matter expertise.
Click to expand...

She, and the whole crew of agitators are very much to blame, and put themselves in that position. As most do in protestors situations, we had huge problems for Police during George Floyd demonstrations riots...mob mentality and just plain ol'e assholes...

As you can see how the driver accelerated and crashed.....when she was hit in the head, her foot slammed down the gas petal due to the body's reaction and was probably not conscious at that time. This is very common with head shots....I actually have car video of a traffic stop I made, driver was drunk and as he pulled off the highway into a parking lot, he shot himself in the head, foot pushed down the gas petal and rammed into a store front.
 
Kraut783 said:
Agree that the situation made it boil over to this point, but we cannot just violate the fourth amendment routinely.

This kind of thing allows the slippery slope that will start spilling over into everyday law enforcement...not sure we want that in the long run.

but, this is just my two cents.....
Click to expand...
This is kind of my point; I don't know what time this is, but it's not the first time on this board someone has said "You're violating X!" Then we have a discussion about it and get exactly where we are now, which is, you say it's a violation, but you can't support that past "I read some stuff and say it is, here are some ambiguous regulations I am personally interpreting in the most restricive manner to support my a priori assumption."

It's a violation when a court rules a specific example is actually a violation. Until then, you just don't like it.
 
Kraut783 said:
She, and the whole crew of agitators are very much to blame, and put themselves in that position. As most do in protestors situations, we had huge problems for Police during George Floyd demonstrations riots...mob mentality and just plain ol'e assholes...

As you can see how the driver accelerated and crashed.....when she was hit in the head, her foot slammed down the gas petal due to the body's reaction and was probably not conscious at that time. This is very common with head shots....I actually have car video of a traffic stop I made, driver was drunk and as he pulled off the highway into a parking lot, he shot himself in the head, foot pushed down the gas petal and rammed into a store front.
Click to expand...
Just the fact that she spun the tires on ice before she turned the wheel and got traction. She was gunning for him with a smile on her face.
 
Box said:
A good cop would have aimed for the passenger side 'b pillar'
...by targeting the passenger side, the round could have richoceted into the ignition switch and shut the car off
...THEN shoot the tires out
...THEN put a low pressure pistol round through the engine block
...THEN shoot the suspect in the leg to keep them from fleeing on foot

THEN - and ONLY then - If all of those measures fail, its ok to intentionally kill an innocent bystander that did absolutely wrong in cold blood

It's what I would have done if it I was in that situation.
Click to expand...
Rumor on the street is this agent was reading your post... 😁

https://twitter.com/x/status/2011627483393900950
 
Topkick said:
Come on, man....these guys aren't Green Berets.
Click to expand...

So...

I've seen a LOT of Green Berets and other SOF guys - as well as NUMEROUS local, state, and federal LEA during my time in service and during years of doing LEA support - and I'm here to tell you...
...there are a LOT of 'operators' that under duress - the safest place on the battlefield is in front of their sights.

...in fact, that's probably why the illegal alien undocumented Venezuelan shovel wielding immigrant was shot in the leg
...shooting low is pretty common when you have that uncanny habit of anticipating recoil

I'd bet the "investigation" uncovers a conspicuous lack of ball and dummy drills in that ICE agent's training program.



just my two cents - I could be wrong
 
Box said:
So...

I've seen a LOT of Green Berets and other SOF guys - as well as NUMEROUS local, state, and federal LEA during my time in service and during years of doing LEA support - and I'm here to tell you...
...there are a LOT of 'operators' that under duress - the safest place on the battlefield is in front of their sights.

...in fact, that's probably why the illegal alien undocumented Venezuelan shovel wielding immigrant was shot in the leg
...shooting low is pretty common when you have that uncanny habit of anticipating recoil

I'd bet the "investigation" uncovers a conspicuous lack of ball and dummy drills in that ICE agent's training program.



just my two cents - I could be wrong
Click to expand...
That could absolutely be true. I tend to push my rounds to the left during stress shoots / rapid fire. Depending on how far away he was from me, I might hit a guy in his right arm instead of his sternum.

He could also have been fighting with the suspect or someone else, and that's the best shot he had.

Or... he doesn't want to be the next guy to get doxxed, harassed, threatened, and thrown in jail as a political sacrifice for killing an "unarmed minority."
 
Box said:
bet the "investigation" uncovers a conspicuous lack of ball and dummy drills in that ICE agent's training program.
Click to expand...
I'm not ready to refer to ICE agents as "Operators" or put them in the same category as a Green Beret. I don't know a lot about ICE, but have LEO family and friends, and it seems marksmanship training is optional for the most part.
 

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