If you ditched the bronze star without combat V, would that go a fair way to fixing the problem in one move?
Our broken awards system
- Thread starter Teufel
- Start date
I attended the SOCOM ball in Tampa last Nov. Never saw so many Bronze Stars in one place. Most were on officers while the enlisted were heavy on Navy Achievement. Only saw a couple of either award with the V. Guess BS could stand for Bull Shit award instead of Bronze Star in cases like that.
The BSM, sans "V" device, is merely a wartime MSM. It's an entirely appropriate decoration for excellence under combat conditions. The BSM can be awarded in combat for merit or for valor (with "V"), just like the ARCOM. That's why there are no Silver Stars or DSCs with "V" devices- they are valor awards in and of themselves. Equitability of awards will always be a problem, because it will always include the human element in the process. The rule I always try to use is level of achievement and level of responsibility, in that order. Also, different units have different cutoffs for awards, it's even worse between the services.
Additionally, unless they've changed things anyone can put anyone else in for an award; if you feel strongly enough that someone deserves it put them in for it. Doesn't mean it'll get approved, but it definitely won't get approved if they're never nominated.
Additionally, unless they've changed things anyone can put anyone else in for an award; if you feel strongly enough that someone deserves it put them in for it. Doesn't mean it'll get approved, but it definitely won't get approved if they're never nominated.
When i was in OEF4, my company commander walked in our tent and said "pick two guys for ARCOMS and left. outta like 11 guys we got 2. Finally I got mine 3 years later, but im not sure if its my ETS award or my being in Afghanistan award at this point. Meanwhile PSG and others laid in our tent for almost a year straight on his cot and or having us hand deliver him chow or MREs if he didnt want to walk that far and he got a Bronze star he was going to denie but didnt... He did it 2 years later again to my privates that later become NCO's. The awards system is FUBAR.
x two (without "V") ;) You are absolutely correct, Mara.
I know, and you may be very fair in the way you submit awards but to me the bronze star has been abused. I have seen too many blanket awards according to rank and billet vice accomplishments and achievement.
You need to post an intro. Thank you in advance.
On a personal note, I don't even want to begin to understand how you can equate a car crash with actions in combat...
X2 I have no idea what that is about. When I initially read it I thought about Jessica Lynch, the HMMWV crash, etc but then I saw the beginning of the post that said "drunk driver".
Your profile says civillian, why would a civillian rate a Purple Heart?
Did your accident affect your ability to follow simple instructions? Don't bother answering, just read this: http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/pages/info/
I don't know why you came to our site, or why your first action was to resurrect a thread that's been dead for the last four years with a post that is completely unrelated. Either you're a troll or your the worst-situationally-aware new member we've had in a looooong time... and that's saying something. At any rate, this is your first and only warning. Get with the program or find another site.
Pretty sure that's a fake profile
IP crosscheck, Isle one.... lol
I witnessed in Iraq an award ceremony for an outgoing Army MP Brigade. It awarded an Army cook a Bronze Star for basically overseeing good chow being served in the chow hall. Meanwhile I also witnessed a Marine only be awarded a NAM with "V" Device after leading his squad through an ambush that had effectively broken the platoon in half. He was personally responsible for flanking a well bunkered machine gun position, exposing himself multiple times to draw other enemy small arms fire to divert the attention away from the rest of the platoon so they could move to better cover and return fire to the machine gun "nest".
As a squad leader, I was asked by my platoon commander to basically write everyone up in my squad for either a NCM, NAM, or letter of commendation. I couldn't argue with a LT so I wrote everyone for a Letter of Commendation. I left that platoon shortly after getting OCONUS and I never followed up with any of my former Marines as to whether or not they were approved. It wasn't their fault as none of them asked for it, but truthfully I felt they did not deserve it. Hell, even I got a NAM and I don't feel it was warranted. I did my job, just like anyone else did. It would be one thing if I were not a grunt as those get handed out like cookies over on the support side, but as a grunt I don't feel I earned it.
As a squad leader, I was asked by my platoon commander to basically write everyone up in my squad for either a NCM, NAM, or letter of commendation. I couldn't argue with a LT so I wrote everyone for a Letter of Commendation. I left that platoon shortly after getting OCONUS and I never followed up with any of my former Marines as to whether or not they were approved. It wasn't their fault as none of them asked for it, but truthfully I felt they did not deserve it. Hell, even I got a NAM and I don't feel it was warranted. I did my job, just like anyone else did. It would be one thing if I were not a grunt as those get handed out like cookies over on the support side, but as a grunt I don't feel I earned it.
Wow looking at this thread now reading back, I'm more inclined to say that there really shouldn't be a tier system on awards.
Valor award for - valor
Live Saving for - saving a life
Merit award for - Merit
Keep the campaign stuff and can the rest. I know a guy with a BSM-V who should have the CMH. I know a officer wearing a Silver Star that was even there for the actions cited.
Not to take away from anyones awards, but its a bit silly to compare a guys his risked his life, saved another to another guys action of the same.
Valor award for - valor
Live Saving for - saving a life
Merit award for - Merit
Keep the campaign stuff and can the rest. I know a guy with a BSM-V who should have the CMH. I know a officer wearing a Silver Star that was even there for the actions cited.
Not to take away from anyones awards, but its a bit silly to compare a guys his risked his life, saved another to another guys action of the same.
How the fuck is it "cyber-bullying" to point out that neither of these two deserves a Bronze Star? Unbelievable. Go Big Blue.
Way to find a two year old story.
Not like the marines or Army awarded BSM's to people who never left the FOB.
I wasn't trying to jab at a specific service with that article. It just happened to be the Air Force in that particular post. And I would not want to know what the number is of BSM awarded to those who never left the wire and received it for merit for the Marine Corps but I am sure it is staggeringly high. I do however think Gen Mattis was on point when he clarified that there needs to be shown an increased risk in order to rate the Bronze Star. Otherwise, one should be issued the Meritorious Service Medal instead. "Mattis “determined it was appropriate to put this philosophy in writing for the benefit of the subordinate commanders so they could clearly see what kind of information he needed,” Freund said. “It was clarifying the criteria he uses to determine what rates the MSM and what rates the Bronze Star.”"
Here is one for the Army to help even things out. http://www.businessinsider.com/patr...combat-valor-without-firing-his-rifle-2012-11
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