Resources for Family/Friends of Military Suicides

[Devildoc]

In the 80s and 90s we didn't have the kinds of conflicts that led to 20+ year wars, either.

I don't get why people are against idolizing the military. People need heroes, and they're going to find them regardless. Why not look up to people who committed their lives to national service? What are the alternatives, actors, politicians, sports figures? I'm totally fine with "thank you for your service" culture. We SHOULD prop up the people who are risking their lives for the nation.

GWOT was the perfect congruence of a variety of intersections and lines: SOF forward, the birth of social media and embeds, the books and movies that came out of it. I think pre- or post-, a lot of it comes down to the individual's character. It's like getting money or power; it doesn't make you better or worse, it exposes those things that are already part of who you are.

I don't believe in idolizing or lionizing the military. When people are the targets of being idolized they start believing it. Actors, athletes, whomever. That's different from respect or the extra nudge for doing something that's inherently dangerous and rooted in a set of values everyone should live by, they should absolutely get extra props for that. They don't get extra kudos because they had 10 deployments, they get extra kudos because they survived the BS of the military: picking up pine cones, the 0400 formation for a 0800 movement, surviving the CIF. THOSE are trauma bonds.

I work with trauma surgeons, and we have one who tells the residents "when people start telling you you are special, you will start to believe it, and that kills people."

 

[Topkick]

I'm totally fine with "thank you for your service" culture. We SHOULD prop up the people who are risking their lives for the nation.

I agree with this. Vietnam vets are my heroes. While a lot of people don't care until they are afraid of something, I've been told by a few that I am a hero. I certainly don't consider myself a hero of one, but dont mind being a representative for our community. OTH, and I know some of you disagree, I am not a fan of profiting from war.

 

[Devildoc]

I agree with this. Vietnam vets are my heroes. While a lot of people don't care until they are afraid of something, I've been told by a few that I am a hero. I certainly don't consider myself a hero of one, but dont mind being a representative for our community. OTH, and I know some of you disagree, I am not a fan of profiting from war.

Vietnam vets, holy hell, agree 100%. Talk about silent professionals.

I have been in communities my entire adulthood where were we were called "heroes"....the military, paramedicine, nursing, LE. It does no one any favors.

"Thank you for your service." You want to thank me? Live a life worthy of what I do/did. That's thanks enough.

 

[Marauder06]

GWOT was the perfect congruence of a variety of intersections and lines: SOF forward, the birth of social media and embeds, the books and movies that came out of it. I think pre- or post-, a lot of it comes down to the individual's character. It's like getting money or power; it doesn't make you better or worse, it exposes those things that are already part of who you are.

I don't believe in idolizing or lionizing the military. When people are the targets of being idolized they start believing it. Actors, athletes, whomever. That's different from respect or the extra nudge for doing something that's inherently dangerous and rooted in a set of values everyone should live by, they should absolutely get extra props for that. They don't get extra kudos because they had 10 deployments, they get extra kudos because they survived the BS of the military: picking up pine cones, the 0400 formation for a 0800 movement, surviving the CIF. THOSE are trauma bonds.

I work with trauma surgeons, and we have one who tells the residents "when people start telling you you are special, you will start to believe it, and that kills people."

Some people ARE special. And that's OK.

Just because someone calls you something doesn't make it so. And it doesn't mean you have to believe them. For years I've been called everything from a fascist to a war criminal to a cuck.

Complacency and hubris don't require outside validation. People can easily get there on their own--or not--without external inputs.

The more we downplay the significance of military service, the more it affects the way people perceive us. The goodwill we've enjoyed for the last couple of decades isn't permanent. It could easily head back towards Vietnam-era distain. Some indicators are that it's already on that road.

All of the Veterans Who Said “Don’t Thank Me For My Service” Are About To Get Their Wish • The Havok Journal

 

[Topkick]

The more we downplay the significance of military service, the more it affects the way people perceive us

And recruiting.

 

[Devildoc]

Some people ARE special. And that's OK.

Just because someone calls you something doesn't make it so. And it doesn't mean you have to believe them. For years I've been called everything from a fascist to a war criminal to a cuck.

Complacency and hubris don't require outside validation. People can easily get there on their own--or not--without external inputs.

The more we downplay the significance of military service, the more it affects the way people perceive us. The goodwill we've enjoyed for the last couple of decades isn't permanent. It could easily head back towards Vietnam-era distain. Some indicators are that it's already on that road.

All of the Veterans Who Said “Don’t Thank Me For My Service” Are About To Get Their Wish • The Havok Journal

I don't think we should downplay military service, merely saying we should not elevate it to something it's not, a profession akin to being a demi-god, which I think has been an unfortunate byproduct of GWOT. And some units inbreed it (looking at you, SEALs).

 

[Devildoc]

And recruiting.

That's interesting, and I think very much a part. I just don't know how big or small a part. After every war there is a layoff as the military reorganizes and restructures. Fewer people join when the economy is good. I do think if we downplay it to be no more than someone who works at Jiffy Lube it will lose its luster and appeal. I AM dismayed at how few people in public service served as I think that affects policy.

 

[Topkick]

That's interesting, and I think very much a part.

Everything affects recruiting. Movies and TV can sway recruiting in either direction. Top Gun, during mostly peacetime, greatly boosted numbers because we were perceived to be cool and heroic. But a lot of movies clown us, which helps enhance a perception that the military is just for down and out losers. I sub teach k-12 on occasion, and I've had discussions with students who think the military is a last resort. Its true for some, but I despise this stigma. I debate this with them and always do what I can to prop up those who serve as heroic.

 

[Devildoc]

Everything affects recruiting. Movies and TV can sway recruiting in either direction. Top Gun, during mostly peacetime, greatly boosted numbers because we were perceived to be cool and heroic. But a lot of movies clown us, which helps enhance a perception that the military is just for down and out losers. I sub teach k-12 on occasion, and I've had discussions with students who think the military is a last resort. I debate this with them and always do what I can to prop up those who serve as heroic.

I agree, movies have a HUGE influence. WW2 had several war flicks that were both great films as well as propaganda that saw subsequent boosts in enlistments. John Wayne's The Green Berets tried to influence recruiting; unfortunately, it came out at a time where the public was against the war.

I was 17 when Top Gun came out, it was extraordinarily influential, for both the Navy and the AF. I know it influenced me.