pardus
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 10,534
I guess I was a little subtle with my post. That was not what I meant lol
Sexual Assault
- Thread starter Soldado
- Start date
I guess I was a little subtle with my post. That was not what I meant lol
I don't know DNA testing capabilities, but I am not exactly sure if the DNA will last for 10 years on a kit when stored in a forgotten warehouse somewhere in Detroit.
I think the Casualty teams in Vietnam have better luck in the jungles than rolling those dice.
I think the Casualty teams in Vietnam have better luck in the jungles than rolling those dice.
Even if the DNA is still good, defense teams would probably have a field day with chain-of-evidence custody.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
Thank you for your expert analysis of the plight of urban law enforcement agencies.
There was an EOD tech that I knew who had been sleeping with a psycho broad off and on at his last duty station. One night, she apparently got a case of the ass and tried to file rape charges against him. There was just one problem, though: at the time that she said the alleged "rape" occurred, the MP's had already had him pulled over for a while for cutting doughnuts in the parade field in the (stolen) response truck after drinking a few brews. Talk about a rock solid alibi.
Not everyone who's found themselves on the bad end of a bad accusation is going to be lucky enough to have that kind of rock solid evidence to shoot a bitch down in flames like that. What's sad is that this particular situation was not the first one that I have encountered where the female was full of complete bullshit when attempting to start the sexual misconduct avalanche. While I have known a couple of females who were honestly the victims of sexual misconduct (not rape, thankfully), I have encountered more bullshit accusations than I have legitimate claims. What I am wondering, and this is in light of my best friend having deployed as a SARC a few years ago, is whether or not anybody has bothered to figure out just exactly what percentage of the unreported cases are victims of male-on-male sexual assault? Or is that not a politically correct question to ask?
Not everyone who's found themselves on the bad end of a bad accusation is going to be lucky enough to have that kind of rock solid evidence to shoot a bitch down in flames like that. What's sad is that this particular situation was not the first one that I have encountered where the female was full of complete bullshit when attempting to start the sexual misconduct avalanche. While I have known a couple of females who were honestly the victims of sexual misconduct (not rape, thankfully), I have encountered more bullshit accusations than I have legitimate claims. What I am wondering, and this is in light of my best friend having deployed as a SARC a few years ago, is whether or not anybody has bothered to figure out just exactly what percentage of the unreported cases are victims of male-on-male sexual assault? Or is that not a politically correct question to ask?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
http://jezebel.com/butt-plugs-and-bitches-the-emails-west-point-doesnt-w-511519204
YMMV, but the dissolution of the Rugby club at Hudson High was public enough to make last week's Army Times...so like with many things, about the Point, why are these men officers in the US Army?
Because I will be clear cut...when allegations come down at my alma mater the General gets up if he's abed with his wife and takes the cadet in his coatee and summarily dismisses him swiftly. I haven't seen females dealt with the same way, especially when in Stephen Lloyd's case back in 2009 he was innocent. He lost his Army commission, went to jail, and became a registered sex offender. The female was later suspended for a year (not dismissed, she would come back and graduate, although pretty much had 1500 people hating her) after having participated in an orgy on a glee club trip. Dirty laundry et al, I'm just giving you the first major example during my cadetship.
But...we have a problem sweeping shit under a rug in the Army it still seems.
YMMV, but the dissolution of the Rugby club at Hudson High was public enough to make last week's Army Times...so like with many things, about the Point, why are these men officers in the US Army?
Because I will be clear cut...when allegations come down at my alma mater the General gets up if he's abed with his wife and takes the cadet in his coatee and summarily dismisses him swiftly. I haven't seen females dealt with the same way, especially when in Stephen Lloyd's case back in 2009 he was innocent. He lost his Army commission, went to jail, and became a registered sex offender. The female was later suspended for a year (not dismissed, she would come back and graduate, although pretty much had 1500 people hating her) after having participated in an orgy on a glee club trip. Dirty laundry et al, I'm just giving you the first major example during my cadetship.
But...we have a problem sweeping shit under a rug in the Army it still seems.
What is your problem with West Point? This isn't the first time you've bashed the school. I'm curious to know what motivates you to paint an entire institution, and its officers, with the same dark brush. Is it something personal?
What did you want to have happen, the entire team be dismissed from the academy and drummed out of the service? Are you telling me that conversations like this, as repulsive as they are, don't take place in colleges all over the country? I think the cadets were adequately punished in accordance with the nature of the offense. Such things should not be tolerated- and it wasn't once it was brought to the attention of the administration.
As far as what happens at your alma mater (VMI, if I remember correctly?) from your description, the General's actions seem like PC BS than leadership. Dismissing someone in the middle of the night, on the basis of a mere ALLEGATION??? If that's really what happens at your school, I'm glad I didn't go there.
What did you want to have happen, the entire team be dismissed from the academy and drummed out of the service? Are you telling me that conversations like this, as repulsive as they are, don't take place in colleges all over the country? I think the cadets were adequately punished in accordance with the nature of the offense. Such things should not be tolerated- and it wasn't once it was brought to the attention of the administration.
As far as what happens at your alma mater (VMI, if I remember correctly?) from your description, the General's actions seem like PC BS than leadership. Dismissing someone in the middle of the night, on the basis of a mere ALLEGATION??? If that's really what happens at your school, I'm glad I didn't go there.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
It seems several Generals at VMI should have participated in the school's adversative discipline program themselves, given that they were propagating unconstitutional policies for nigh on 128 years. In fact, for those 128 years all the cadets and cadre--who as commissioned officers had sworn to uphold the United States Constitution--chose to simply disregard the 14th Amendment. As I recall, the United States Supreme Court had to set them straight. As we're discussing issues regarding sexual impropriety and the general treatment of women, perhaps VMI shouldn't be held up as a shining example in these matters.
Could not the same question be posed to each and every VMI cadet who, prior to the 1996 SCOTUS decision, participated in a system that denied women equal rights under the Constitution and then raised their hands to swear to defend and uphold that very same document and all its several Amendments?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
policemedic
Shining example, it was a tough place then, it's a tough place for all now. What was unconstitutional? VMI wasn't the only gender segregated school in the state, there were three all-women state colleges in Virginia at the time which have since become co-educational as that ruling that brought women to Post also brought men to those campuses.
Marauder06
Why? Wdym paint with a broad brush? In regards to emails and stories? Well, of course they happen amongst friends everywhere. However, in this case it got these cadets "punished"? All I read was that the team was dissolved, it said nothing about them having to march 60 or whatever "hours" IOT graduate. I didn't really bash Hudson High, I was really pointing to the fact of what VMI has done. Is it shady, it sure as hell is, especially when the person I mentioned was damned innocent. However, I was pointing to the fact that a moment something happens that can bring the Institute into disrepute, the Institute acts, and acts like the wind. And usually there tends to be a booking in county that does that.
I wouldn't say I really dislike West Point, it's more a rivalry thing, there are many a WP graduate I respect/like/look up to, and there are many that are my peers that I wonder how they not only got in, but were allowed to graduate, and that had everything to do with their personal character.
So is it a broad stroke? Most saber cuts are.
p.s. I, as an alumnus of VMI, have pride that was beat into me, but I also have disgust for decisions that were made and continue to be made there and I voice my opinion of the place in forums to where my voice may be heard by those that make said decisions.
Shining example, it was a tough place then, it's a tough place for all now. What was unconstitutional? VMI wasn't the only gender segregated school in the state, there were three all-women state colleges in Virginia at the time which have since become co-educational as that ruling that brought women to Post also brought men to those campuses.
Marauder06
Why? Wdym paint with a broad brush? In regards to emails and stories? Well, of course they happen amongst friends everywhere. However, in this case it got these cadets "punished"? All I read was that the team was dissolved, it said nothing about them having to march 60 or whatever "hours" IOT graduate. I didn't really bash Hudson High, I was really pointing to the fact of what VMI has done. Is it shady, it sure as hell is, especially when the person I mentioned was damned innocent. However, I was pointing to the fact that a moment something happens that can bring the Institute into disrepute, the Institute acts, and acts like the wind. And usually there tends to be a booking in county that does that.
I wouldn't say I really dislike West Point, it's more a rivalry thing, there are many a WP graduate I respect/like/look up to, and there are many that are my peers that I wonder how they not only got in, but were allowed to graduate, and that had everything to do with their personal character.
So is it a broad stroke? Most saber cuts are.
p.s. I, as an alumnus of VMI, have pride that was beat into me, but I also have disgust for decisions that were made and continue to be made there and I voice my opinion of the place in forums to where my voice may be heard by those that make said decisions.
Sexual assault is a serious crime and topic:
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/07/08/mcpon-to-sailors-we-must-solve-sexual-assault-together/
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/06...eet-wide-sexual-assault-awareness-stand-down/
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/07/08/mcpon-to-sailors-we-must-solve-sexual-assault-together/
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/06...eet-wide-sexual-assault-awareness-stand-down/
policemedic
Verified SWAT
:wall:
JHD
Member
I had an assistant, female, who was former Army. She had an ENORMOUS chip on her shoulder. She told me that during her time in the Army she had been raped twice. She was an employee that if she did anything wrong, it was always someone else's fault. In a circumstance where I had two other highly-trusted-by everyone-employees state that she had said and done something worthy of being terminated, she was misunderstood and the other two eyewitnesses were wrong.
If I had been her commanding officer I would not have believed her, and doubt that "rape" actually occurred. I don't know that it didn't, but based on what I know about her, I have a really hard time believing it. Situations like this make legitimate rape accusations more questionable, unfortunately.
If I had been her commanding officer I would not have believed her, and doubt that "rape" actually occurred. I don't know that it didn't, but based on what I know about her, I have a really hard time believing it. Situations like this make legitimate rape accusations more questionable, unfortunately.
During my ten years and eight months of Army service, I can honestly say that on one occasion I encountered something that could have been classified as sexual assault (not rape, just inappropriate contact). There were witnesses to the event, and my unit handled it in house to my satisfaction.
That being said, the issue with sexual assault/rape charges is that when it comes to females, there are entirely too damned many false accusations made against males. This serves no purpose except to diminish the accusations that can be substantiated. I've been questioned in a couple of 15-6 investigations where a female I was either acquainted with or was in my unit had lodged a complaint of a sexual nature that was utter bullshit, and I testified to that fact. I guess you could say I turned in my estrogen card with that one, but it fucking happens. I know I've mentioned in the past how another bomb jockey I know was able to shoot down a rape charge that came from a woman who was pissed off at him because he didn't want to have sex with her crazy ass anymore. If it wasn't for that hard evidence, his career would've been ruined.
Also, let's not forget that not all the sexual assaults are male-on-female. Male-on-male is underreported like crazy, because what barrel-chested freedom fighter wants to come forward to admit that he was bested in a fight and had his one cherry popped?
Sexual misbehavior of a criminal nature should not be tolerated under any circumstances, but it's right difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff when the caliber of complainants are as vindictive and unreliable as many of them are.
That being said, the issue with sexual assault/rape charges is that when it comes to females, there are entirely too damned many false accusations made against males. This serves no purpose except to diminish the accusations that can be substantiated. I've been questioned in a couple of 15-6 investigations where a female I was either acquainted with or was in my unit had lodged a complaint of a sexual nature that was utter bullshit, and I testified to that fact. I guess you could say I turned in my estrogen card with that one, but it fucking happens. I know I've mentioned in the past how another bomb jockey I know was able to shoot down a rape charge that came from a woman who was pissed off at him because he didn't want to have sex with her crazy ass anymore. If it wasn't for that hard evidence, his career would've been ruined.
Also, let's not forget that not all the sexual assaults are male-on-female. Male-on-male is underreported like crazy, because what barrel-chested freedom fighter wants to come forward to admit that he was bested in a fight and had his one cherry popped?
Sexual misbehavior of a criminal nature should not be tolerated under any circumstances, but it's right difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff when the caliber of complainants are as vindictive and unreliable as many of them are.
I wish I could have liked it also. Great points here RK.
pardus
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 10,534
I witnessed a male on male sexual assault. I reported it, CID interviewed about a dozen plus people. The E6 in question was removed from the deployment within 2-3 days of me reporting it. Turns out at least half a dozen other people spoke up and said this prick had done the same to them (not rape, touching etc...).
CID said they would give monthly updates to the main victim until the trial.
Cricket.... Cricket....
No one heard another word about it and the E6 was allowed to retire (I think without benefits though).
They fucking covered it up. in 2012/2013. At that level, I have NO fucking faith in the system.
I'm going to punch the next SHARPE training lecturer I see.
CID said they would give monthly updates to the main victim until the trial.
Cricket.... Cricket....
No one heard another word about it and the E6 was allowed to retire (I think without benefits though).
They fucking covered it up. in 2012/2013. At that level, I have NO fucking faith in the system.
I'm going to punch the next SHARPE training lecturer I see.
Kraut783
SOF Support
Pardus, remember that the military prosecution system is jacked up. Commanders still have a say so in what happens to the accused. From working as a CID Agent, sexual assaults crimes are the biggest fail, the case can be rock solid, as yours was....but once presented to the prosecution...the commander of the accused still has final say so in what the punishment is or will be. Until the military works the same as civilian law enforcement in cases of felonies, the system will remain FUBAR.
This latest SHARP video training was time I will never get back....what a waste.
This latest SHARP video training was time I will never get back....what a waste.
The "what else is true" is that any protections put in place to prevent that from happening will immediatly be abused by toxic commands to prevent prosecution of soldiers that were not falsley accused. It's a challange that can't just legislated away. Recruiting from a more mature base would help a lot.
Reed
Military JAG's have to be less risk adverse too.
I know a case where a Sr NCO got caught fooling around, and "sexting" with govt computers/phones. Commander wanted to hammer him, but Hq JAG wouldn't press the case.
He retired and moved on.
My wife had a case where CID wouldn't get involved, she had to ask OSI for assistance, the LTC was convicted (falsifying CAB papers, among other things) and sent to KS.
There is no unified investigation process, commanders with a different spanks attitude (no different then civilian DA's), and no punishment for filing a false report.
BTW- The nastiest sexual assault case my HH6 has prosecuted involved a CSM who was fondling his male soldiers under the guise of improving their PT form
.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
That would drive me batshit insane. Sex crimes are hard enough to work.
