So tell me again why we are releasing this CIA "torture" report?

[CPL B USMC]

This is horrible. Our interrogation methods are probably not anywhere close to those used on us upon capture. They are executing our POWs! I also find it really had to believe that our interrogation tactics led to no valuable intel. What a load of BS.

 

[Salt USMC]

NYT has the first story about the report. Pretty damning so far but nothing really crazy. This is definitely not Church Report 2.0

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/1...ing-over-interrogation-program.html?referrer=

Sorry for the mobile version but I'm on my phone

 

[Ooh-Rah]

1: does anyone believe for one minute that the exact techniques would not be used again if there were another attack on US soil?
(Although with this administration who knows, he might must order that we just ask nicely)

2: who in their right mind would want to work for the CIA anymore? They seem to be the punching bag for administration after administration.

3: I am reminded of this quote from "A Few Good Men".
Col. Jessup: You fuckin' people. You have no idea how to defend a nation. All you did was weaken a country today, Kaffee. That's all you did. You put people's lives in danger. Sweet dreams, son."

 

[Gypsy]

I thought it was about transparency in government.

 

[Red Flag 1]

I thought it was about transparency in government.

Nice words, were't they. I suppose it could happen at some point; but this has nothing to do with transparency. This, at least to me, smacks of a misbehaving, petulant child who did not get his way.

What ever happened to his old, "let's have a beer" diplomacy?

 

[CQB]

Mentioned by an obscure senate backbencher in the US is the circumstances it was done in, post 9/11. This says a lot IMO. We all know what occurred after the event. World wide US SF went everywhere looking for any & every threat. There was internally at CIA, so I'm led to believe, quite a debate about the downstream result, so here we are.
I'm reading Cheneys biography currently & one passage which struck me was the kidnapping of William Buckley (no not William F.) who was CIA station chief in Beirut.
The bad guys sent a vid of a drooling & incoherent man who had been tortured which Cheney saw and which affected him deeply. So as you can imaging, a whole reconfiguring took place in Beirut as a result. I'd say the VP had quite an input into the program. I'm pointing these points out as a reason, not necessarily an excuse.

 

[HOLLiS]

I thought it was about transparency in government.

A friend who was in the News business told me the worse time is when there is no news. They would have to go out and find it. One commentator stated that news service when down when it went to a 24hr/day 7 days a week service. Then we have good old partisan politics in the media.

 

[Mac_NZ]

1. I think the only reason this was released is to take the heat of the current administration for well, everything.
2. I await with baited breath international condemnation from countries with an outstanding human rights record like Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

 

[Centermass]

The President as CinC can declassify anything he wants.

What's really funny (Actually sad) is when it comes down to it, if he had to process, I don't think he'd pass an SSBI, let alone a YW.....or even a NAC. :-"

 

[Brill]

What's really funny (Actually sad) is when it comes down to it, if he had to process, I don't think he'd pass an SSBI, let alone a YW.....or even a NAC. :-"

Gotta be an American to get a clearance.

 

[Brill]

CIA's response was pretty much a "go fuck yourself".

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/12/politics/cia-response/?hpt=hp_t1

In the response, CIA director John Brennan writes, "the Agency disagrees with the Study's unqualified assertions that the overall detention and interrogation program did not produce unique intelligence that led terrorist plots to be disrupted, terrorists to be captured, or lives to be saved."

 

[JBS]

The report is total horseshit and so is its timed political hackery release date.

This has nothing to do with saving lives or protecting the civilized world and everything to do with calculated political chess moves.

 

[Salt USMC]

Can you explain why the timing is problematic? I'm legitimately curious.

For one, we don't have any elections for another two years so this will be gone from everyone's collective conscience by then. The only thing I can really think of is a partisan attempt to slash the agency's budget, but I don't think that's even an issue until 2015. So....what is it?

 

[DA SWO]

Can you explain why the timing is problematic? I'm legitimately curious.

For one, we don't have any elections for another two years so this will be gone from everyone's collective conscience by then. The only thing I can really think of is a partisan attempt to slash the agency's budget, but I don't think that's even an issue until 2015. So....what is it?

Gruber was being grilled by a House Committee.
This pushed that story off the lead.
Pure politics.

 

[pardus]

Can you explain why the timing is problematic? I'm legitimately curious.

For one, we don't have any elections for another two years so this will be gone from everyone's collective conscience by then. The only thing I can really think of is a partisan attempt to slash the agency's budget, but I don't think that's even an issue until 2015. So....what is it?

My .02c...

This is like publishing a report about the bombing of Dresden or Tokyo before the end of WWII.
I get that some people want to hear about it, but is that in the best interests of the country while we are still engaged in this conflict, and will give meaningful support to our enemies during a time of war?

Personally I blame Pres Obama in this case only for setting the framework for this to happen, that was a naive, shortsighted, stupid, liberal ideological move. That said, his administration is trying to fight/discourage this (via Kerry). Feinstien is the problem here, she is a vindictive, traitorous bitch looking for another headline and another bullet point for her liberal tell all book I'm waiting for her to release once she's out of office.

 

[Salt USMC]

Gruber was being grilled by a House Committee.
This pushed that story off the lead.
Pure politics.

But that still doesn't make any sense. The Gruber story is Obama's mess, with little or no repercussions for Feinstein, and the White House has shown that it really did not want this report being released right now. It doesn't benefit them at all.

My .02c...

This is like publishing a report about the bombing of Dresden or Tokyo before the end of WWII.
I get that some people want to hear about it, but is that in the best interests of the country while we are still engaged in this conflict, and will give meaningful support to our enemies during a time of war?

Personally I blame Pres Obama in this case only for setting the framework for this to happen, that was a naive, shortsighted, stupid, liberal ideological move. That said, his administration is trying to fight/discourage this (via Kerry). Feinstien is the problem here, she is a vindictive, traitorous bitch looking for another headline and another bullet point for her liberal tell all book I'm waiting for her to release once she's out of office.

I can buy the first and third parts, but looking at the highlighted section I'm curious as to why you think that. I know you're not an Obama fan in general (hell, I'm not either these days), but it really seems like he has been trying to reign in the CIA for some time. To me that says that he's been actively establishing framework against so-called torture for some time. Or did you mean something else?

 

[Scotth]

If this was about politics the report would have been released prior to the elections, not post elections.

Gruber was a nothing story beyond a d-bag talking out of his 4th point of contact.

If this was Obama driving the issue it would have been released prior to 2010. 6 year later this was about the Feinstein crusade and she banged plenty of heads with the administration over this report.

One side of me says we needed an accounting for the torture because it was wrong and isn't a great source of intel. You torture someone enough they will tell you their Mom was on the grassy knoll and killed Kennedy. On the other hand this report does nothing good for us internationally and just gives people an excuse to retaliate against our people.

It's a no win either way.

 

[pardus]

But that still doesn't make any sense. The Gruber story is Obama's mess, with little or no repercussions for Feinstein, and the White House has shown that it really did not want this report being released right now. It doesn't benefit them at all.



I can buy the first and third parts, but looking at the highlighted section I'm curious as to why you think that. I know you're not an Obama fan in general (hell, I'm not either these days), but it really seems like he has been trying to reign in the CIA for some time. To me that says that he's been actively establishing framework against so-called torture for some time. Or did you mean something else?

What I meant was (I will caveat by saying i'm ignorant to this subject outside this thread, and I'm going off what's written in this thread and even then I haven't read it all because I'm not that interested to be honest...) that I read that the POTUS gave the authorization to release info like this (though not this specifically) in broad strokes.
I think he/his administration is trying to stop/delay this stupid report being released, which I applaud. I also think it's ironic that you say he's been trying to rein in the CIA, when he is the POTUS in modern times who has has them killing bad guys at a faster pace than anyone since Johnson/Nixon. I applaud him for that too.
Now I will bow to this being an ignorant and uninformed view, but it's all I've got and at this point in time, and all I want to give to the story.
I don't like Obama, true, but I don't want to lie and slander him either. I despise both sides when they do that and I'm not part of either.

 

[pardus]

One side of me says we needed an accounting for the torture because it was wrong and isn't a great source of intel. You torture someone enough they will tell you their Mom was on the grassy knoll and killed Kennedy. On the other hand this report does nothing good for us internationally and just gives people an excuse to retaliate against our people.

It's a no win either way.

Tell me what torture happened?

 

[Salt USMC]

Tell me what torture happened?

Most of the report was fairly tame, but there was also incredibly bizarre stuff like this

They basically raped this dude.

There's also a few instances of the report detailing agency incompotence or improper vetting