I went in Sep. 93. but have no idea how long they were used.
Some changes to Airborne School
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I went in Sep. 93. but have no idea how long they were used.
Yep. Never saw them before. I did however break my lt. ankle on a jump @ Bragg / Sicily D.Z. and needed recon. surgery. (5 ruptured ligaments and 2 avulsion f/x's of distal tib / fib). I healed and jumped again.
F.M.
F.M.
Race track, only do one door at a time.
I had a PT test in 83, plus we were required to do 10 pull ups after the morning run.
BAHAHAHAHA You are old!, wait, that makes me....damnit! You went a month before me.
Reed
Ha!
We graduated Sep. 24, 1993. I believe I was in D Co. and I know I was immortal at that point in my life.
I graduated in june of 95.
F.M.
F.M.
The one second interval is dependent on the descent rate under canopy being roughly similar for all the jumpers exiting the aircraft on the pass and the drop zone being capable of handling both the number of jumpers landing on it and numbers of aircraft in the formation putting the jumpers out.
The mass tactical parachute assault has limited requirement for steerable maneuverable parachute canopy for a reason. Suspended weight/mass does influence canopy opening, but the primary mass/weight concern pertinent to mass tactical parachute operations is fall/decent rates of the jumpers under canopy.
The constraints for the feasible airborne mass tactical airborne assault has always been density limits on aircraft simultaneously making a single formation jump pass over the drop zone or consecutive rapid multiple single or small formation jump pass over the drop zone.
Even bomber has a bomb drop salvo delay to prevent bombs striking on release and blowing up either the bomber that dropped the bombs or from taking out other bombers in the formation.
The context being the interval delay on the mass tactical jump is determined by the drop altitude (500 feet, 800 feet, 100 feet, 1,500 above the ground) fall rate of the jumpers under canopy and to limit jumpers being too spread out or strung out on the ground.
The “must weigh a minimum of 110lbs” has as much to do with rate of descent in the interval more so than with strength and weight and mass to operate the parachute. Weight and mass can be compensated for by putting more equipment on the jumper (ie., give the lighter jumpers the heavy M-50s, mortars, and radios to jump).
Rate of descent being uniform is important in the sequenced multi-pass or large formation multi pass jump pass as the sequence and formation interval is dependent on first out not having such a slow rate of decent that the aircraft following the lead aircraft are not putting jumpers having a higher rate of decedent falling into the slower descending parachutists.
BTW, I graduated the US Army Basic Airborne Course when it still had "male" only standards.
See timeline from 4:35 to 5:47. Gives the proper jumpmaster duties of making sure the too underweight jumper has sufficient fall rate to participate in the mass tactical combat assault jump. Added: probably not work place suitable.
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Brill
SOF Support
I read that everyone is going to MFF since it's safer anyway.
I've read a lot of MFF qualifications speculations, but never any speculation of using High Glide Ratio Parachutes to do mass tactical parachute jumps having purpose of putting hundreds of jumpers on the tactical airborne assault drop zone.
Large scale (airborne division level) airborne assaults are fading into history as an ineffective and inefficient tactic for the same casual reasons gliders were done away with and subsequently the C-123 (had wing designed to break away when it hit the trees) went away. Current and future airborne combat operations and capability is focusing on small scale over the horizon light ground forces to be employed for a short time for particular types of missions (ground reconnaissance, special operations type raids, personnel recovery, etc).
The 82nd large conventional infantry airborne assault to capture and hold ground that is opposed by the presence of significant enemy forces in proximity of the drop zone is, if not already, fading into history. The downsizing after WWII left the 82nd as the only remaining active airborne division. But the 82nd organization also changed in concept and mission set towards a conventional infantry unit with a large support forces footprint.
Organizations such as US Army Ranger Battalions are picking up the airborne leading the way standards and guidons. Of every military service member assigned the 75th Ranger Regiment organization is a rifleman combatant even the support troops.
You do realize the U.S. Army was seriously considering converting both the 82nd and 101st from Airborne Divisions to Air Assault Divisions but the two successful airborne assaults accomplished during the Korean War where heavy equipment was also air dropped put a stop to such ideas? However the reasoning for why everybody is going to MFF has less to with being safer and more to do with mass tactical airborne assault of hundreds of parachutists is less likely to be a combat fight objective winning necessity.
Brill
SOF Support
LOL, it's a public thread likely to have many people having no military parachutist training or qualifications reading it. MFF in what was initially a basic airborne course/school thread, IMO, deserved a serious response as many who are not military parachutist lack awareness that MFF canopies are highly maneuverable high glide ratio air foils and canopies used for mass tactical airborne assaults are generally not very maneuverable. The logistics and tactical necessities of a large scale mass tactical airborne assault differ significantly from the typical MFF operation. I thought some readers lacking military parachutist training and qualifications might appreciate some additional serious information.
It's Sheldon with jump wings and a tab!
Take and hold ground, probably not (we agree)
Take and hold an airstrip or small valley, ya still relevant.
Some what. The last actual large scale combat airborne assault where troops were exposed to enemy ground fire hasn't happened very often after WWII. Being still relevant needs connection to political resolve or courage to use such capability to do such operations.
Assaulting an airstrip to hold it has purpose of seizing and holding in conjunction with or pending arrival of other military forces. It differs from take and holding a small valley as the airstrip, if taken, provides means to withdrawal the airborne forces on mission termination unless it’s a planned sacrifice mission (the airborne forces are considered 100% expendable). There is no political tolerance for deliberately planned sacrifice missions and a military strategic or tactical importance to seize the airfield/airstrip is still needed.
Taking and seizing a small valley still needs a withdrawal capability or a reinforcement and resupply capability. Otherwise it is also a deliberately planned sacrifice mission.
I truly enjoy listening to the talking head military strategists and talking heads on cable news and broadcast TV news. The strategic purpose of having airfields and other support infrastructure in Iraq before putting significant numbers of ground forces on the ground in Afghanistan has never once been mentioned. Neither is it mentioned that stating this as a reason to invade Iraq was politically unacceptable to the American public, most politicians and the news media. Has anyone considered what would have happened in to US boots on the ground in Afghanistan had Iran decided to get involved. (Hints: Chosin Reservoir Campaign or the Changjin Lake Campaign during the Korean War and Battle of the Imjin River during the Korean War).
I was attracted to this discussion by the disclosure of the implementation of the new fitness standard of to start the Basic Airborne Course "all students must execute a 30 second flexed arm hang" and if this was a permanent change or a temporary change particularly because it was disclosed this requirement eliminated many female students from the course. Any how if I'm getting peoples' panties in a wad by discussing the MFF and mass tactical jump tangents introduced into the conversation I am willing to disengage from the topic.
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Nobody's panties are in a wad, dude. The whole MFF topic you're discussing would be best served with its own thread. It is interesting.
Not that it wouldn't get hijacked or anything... (just kidding
)
Not that it wouldn't get hijacked or anything... (just kidding
)
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Anyone rememeber in late summer of 2000 when they came out with weight limits for what the individual jumper could weigh (max weight)? I cannot remember the weight limit but it was terrible for those of us in the 150-180 pound range. I was just back from Ranger school and was accordingly 25 lbs or so lighter than normal. One week back and we get one of those EDRE recalls, end up jumping into FCKY in the wee hours of the morning, in August. I think I had all of weapons squad water and ammo so everyone could make weight, not to mention it was hot and humid as hell. That was some dumb shit and was accordingly dubbed the FCKY phase of Ranger school by a few of us freshly tabbed bastards.
There was also a maximum jumper and equipment weight limit for every military parachute put into the system. In fact the 1970s era T.O. 14 D1-2-396, AF tech Order for the S-17/18 (MC-1C) actually had maximum weight limits for drop zones up to 10,000 feet of elevation. I do not recall the Army Basic Airborne Course imposing a maximum parachutist weight during my period of service (1973-1996), but the Military Free Fall qualification course has had a personnel will mot exceed 240 pounds standard since the MC-4 was put into service.
Current ATRRS Course Catalog info.
Airborne---
Officer, Warrant Officer, enlisted personnel, and cadet volunteers less than 36 years of age on the date of application. General Officers, Field Grade Officers, Warrant Officers in grade W-3, W-4, and W-5 and enlisted personnel in pay grade of E-5 and above may be considered for a waiver of age when the examining medical officer recommends to the unit commander that such a waiver be granted.
Must meet the physical qualification for parachute duty established in AR 40-501.
Male/Female must pass the Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT) with a score of 180 points (60 points in each event using the 17-21 year age group scale) and meet the height and weight standard IAW AR 600-9. APFT will be administered to the students on the first day of the airborne couse.
Failure of the APFT constitutes a failure of the entrance exam. Students are afforded ten minutes of rest before being retested on push-ups or sit-ups an twenty minutes of rest is afforded before retaking the run option of the APFT. Soldiers who fail to meet the established standard will be outprocessed from the unit. MOS reclassification will occur as appropriate for initial entry Soldiers.
MFF---
Army Active Component or Reserve Component Special Operations Forces Commissioned Officers (LT-CPT), Warrant Officers (WO1-CW3) or enlisted personnel (PFC-MSG), assigned to or on orders for assignment to a military free fall coded position.
Other Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers, or enlisted personnel of the Active or Reserve Components, selected DoD civilian personnel or allied personnel must be assigned to or on orders for assignment to a MFF coded position
Requests for exceptions to the above must be endorsed in writing by the first O-5 commander in the chain of command.
Must be a qualified military static line parachutist. Must have a current Class III flight physical examination IAW AR 40-501 dated within two years of course completion date. Must report with a current Physiological Training Record, High-Altitude Parachutist Initial (HAP INT) (AF Form 1274; AF Form 702, Navy Form 1550/28-NP-6 card; or USAAMC AA Form 484.)
Personnel cannot exceed 240 pounds.
Any variation from the above standards requires a waiver from the Commanding General, USAJFKSWCS.
Current ATRRS Course Catalog info.
Airborne---
Officer, Warrant Officer, enlisted personnel, and cadet volunteers less than 36 years of age on the date of application. General Officers, Field Grade Officers, Warrant Officers in grade W-3, W-4, and W-5 and enlisted personnel in pay grade of E-5 and above may be considered for a waiver of age when the examining medical officer recommends to the unit commander that such a waiver be granted.
Must meet the physical qualification for parachute duty established in AR 40-501.
Male/Female must pass the Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT) with a score of 180 points (60 points in each event using the 17-21 year age group scale) and meet the height and weight standard IAW AR 600-9. APFT will be administered to the students on the first day of the airborne couse.
Failure of the APFT constitutes a failure of the entrance exam. Students are afforded ten minutes of rest before being retested on push-ups or sit-ups an twenty minutes of rest is afforded before retaking the run option of the APFT. Soldiers who fail to meet the established standard will be outprocessed from the unit. MOS reclassification will occur as appropriate for initial entry Soldiers.
MFF---
Army Active Component or Reserve Component Special Operations Forces Commissioned Officers (LT-CPT), Warrant Officers (WO1-CW3) or enlisted personnel (PFC-MSG), assigned to or on orders for assignment to a military free fall coded position.
Other Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers, or enlisted personnel of the Active or Reserve Components, selected DoD civilian personnel or allied personnel must be assigned to or on orders for assignment to a MFF coded position
Requests for exceptions to the above must be endorsed in writing by the first O-5 commander in the chain of command.
Must be a qualified military static line parachutist. Must have a current Class III flight physical examination IAW AR 40-501 dated within two years of course completion date. Must report with a current Physiological Training Record, High-Altitude Parachutist Initial (HAP INT) (AF Form 1274; AF Form 702, Navy Form 1550/28-NP-6 card; or USAAMC AA Form 484.)
Personnel cannot exceed 240 pounds.
Any variation from the above standards requires a waiver from the Commanding General, USAJFKSWCS.
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